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Thread: legion firearms

  1. #21
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    Good company or not, super long disclaimers/contracts are a huge turn off for me.

    http://store.legionfirearms.com/articles.asp?ID=57

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cqbg36 View Post
    Good luck getting anything out of them. They are on the verge of BK. I know several who are out money on deposits that they will never get back. Buyer beware.
    Before slandering a company's name why don't you give some real facts instead of some "hear say". Please have one of the people "you know" come forward and post their full story. Legion is on this board so Im hoping they will chime in.

  3. #23
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    You should see the 7 pages of terms and conditions we used to send out with every 45 degree selector
    Roger Wang
    Forward Controls Design
    Simplicity is the sign of truth

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leaveammoforme View Post
    Good company or not, super long disclaimers/contracts are a huge turn off for me.

    http://store.legionfirearms.com/articles.asp?ID=57
    How are you even using a computer? The terms and conditions for everything about your computer probably total thousands of pages.

  5. #25
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    I have spoken to and handled several of the Legion rifles and pistols at the last few SHOT's. While I have not had the opportunity to field either of their weapons I spoke with a friend who was an instructor and puts many thousands of rounds down range a month and he had nothing but praises for the rifle. I first spoke with Legion years ago at their booth, I was impressed with the parts they had chosen for their builds ( almost identical to the parts I would have chosen in many cases,) and were one of the first companies to embrace Nickel Boron (Failzero) coating of their components which was still pretty new and not yet as widely used as it is today. At the time they were the only company that I new of that was Nickel Boron coating the entire upper receiver and not just the BCG (something I had just done to my 6.8SPC upper before completing.) In talking with their crew you could tell they were passionate about their products and welcomed input from shooters.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    How are you even using a computer? The terms and conditions for everything about your computer probably total thousands of pages.
    Did I say deal breaker or turn off? I think you're a bit high on your 'thousands of pages' guess but I'm going to accept that as right because I dont care enough to research your statement. But, the phone I use for internet did have a 3 page agreement.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cqbg36 View Post
    Good luck getting anything out of them. They are on the verge of BK. I know several who are out money on deposits that they will never get back. Buyer beware.
    They're on the verge of Burger King?! Holy shit! Nice hit-and-run post, FNG.

  8. #28
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    While I don't know cqbg36, nor can I attest to anything about them being on the verge of bankruptcy, I can speak from my personal experience along with what I have monitored, but cannot confirm, on this and other forums, the Legion Firearms Facebook page, and their Google+ reviews. I also realize that this post is so long that some of you will take one look at it and either skip it entirely or only skim it, but if there are any of you in a position similar to mine, perhaps you'll get something out of it.

    In the first two weeks of January 2013, I placed an order for a complete LF-15, an additional LF-15 upper, and an LF-10. I paid a deposit of approximately 50% down on each item. At the time of placing my order, I was quoted a 16 to 20 week lead time on all three, even though we all know what the market was like at that time. Granted, I fully expected it to take longer than the 16 to 20 week estimate, but as of today, over 56 weeks later, I do not have any of the items that I ordered.

    Also at the time of ordering, I was informed that about 4 weeks prior to the expected date of my rifle being ready, I would receive a phone call in order to review my order to see if anything I wanted had changed, just prior to the items hitting the actual construction and assembly stage. As of today, I have not received that phone call, so I can assume that I am looking at at least another 4 weeks if I received that phone call tomorrow.

    Throughout the past 56 weeks, I have been in occasional e-mail and telephone contact with a representative of Legion Firearms, dealing mostly with Adam Morehead. Up until this point, I have typically been able to get a response via e-mail or return phone call within a reasonable amount of time. My most recent e-mail requesting a status update has gone unanswered, but that was only sent last week. During the course of my e-mails, I have been given several estimates of when one or more of the products could be expected, none of which have been met. I have also noticed a general trend towards avoiding giving new estimates of when production could be expected, which I wouldn't fault anyone for, because eventually you just don't know. But, no one from Legion Firearms has come out and outright said anything to that effect, at all. In general, I was always told that they were waiting on one part or another that was holding up production, namely upper receivers, bolt carrier groups, and barrels.

    In an October 2013 post, m4carbine.net member sua175 details a few of his rifles, two of which are Legion Firearms rifles, including an LF-10. That post can be found here: My-custom-AR-war-rifles There are only a few posts on m4carbine.net and arfcom in general that I have been able to find bringing up Legion Firearms, all of which can be found with a simple search, and most of which are from 2012.

    Starting around October of 2013, I really started paying close attention to their Facebook page and other media to see if they had any updates, if other customers were getting their products, etc. All I can do is summarize that information for you guys; please understand that I am not quoting anything for truth, just relaying what is out there.

    I can tell you that Jim Gilliland from Shadow 6/Trigger Time TV received an LF-10 to do a review in Season 4. I can tell you that Steve Fisher of Magpul Dynamics, and now Sentinel Concepts, received an LF-10. I can tell you that a few guys have posted up on their Facebook saying that they have received their rifles and love them. I can tell you that several guys have posted saying that they are in a similar boat as I have described, having paid half down but now have either not received what they've ordered or they cannot get any return contact from the company. I know that these claimed times range from early 2012 on up to more recent orders, the early 2012 claims being populated almost exclusively by LFP orders. According to a Facebook user, GT Distributors' storefront in Austin, TX sold at least one their rifles towards the end of 2013.

    Again, time for a disclaimer: I don't know any of these gentleman, nor have I attempted to contact any of them, so take that for what it is worth. One of the gentleman that posted a 1 star review on their Facebook page stating that his order was almost a year out and he couldn't get anyone to return his calls also posted the same 1 star review and statement on their Google+ page. That post, along with another 1 star review, account for two 1 star reviews on Google+ in the past two weeks.

    In June 2013, Legion Firearms updated their website with a statement about the general state of the firearms market leading to increase production times, but Legion Firearms would remain dedicated to a high quality, hard use weapon systems. This post was also highlighted on Soldier Systems Daily. Also during the summer of 2013, Legion Firearms participated in a giveaway with the Mad Duo from Breac-Bang-clear. More recently, in December 2013, they announced having hired Blue August as a public relations firm. They also have a few Facebook posts in the last few weeks of 2013 about having hired new team members to assist in production of rifles. Adam Morehead was in attendance at SHOT Show 2014, and there are, or were, video reviews on from Spartan TC, Firelance Media, GunReportsChannel, and TriggerTime TV posted on YouTube. This all gives evidence that they are at least somewhat still active in some regard, at a minimum.

    There were two rifles that were recurring items on GunBroker for some time last year, as well as one LFP-9 that was sold on their Facebook Industry page. Chris Naganuma of Off the Grid Concepts uses an LFP, as well as some other 3-Gun shooters. These guys, along with one other user, all have non-review videos on YouTube that verify their existence, so there are definitely rifles and pistols out there.

    I suppose I should attempt to sum up what I am trying to get at with this post. For those of you skimming, here is the just of it:

    -I placed three orders in January 2013, paying a 50% deposit up front. As of February 2014, have I received anything? No
    -Until at least very recently, have I been able to maintain contact with Legion Firearms? Yes
    -Do I feel that, especially given the investment that I have, the communication could, and should, be better? Absolutely
    -What do I think they could do to make it better? At least a general monthly status update sent out to current customers with pending orders, notifications on what the issues are, the steps they are taking to correct the issues, and/or having a greater presence in the online community, etc.
    -Have some people received their weapons? Yes
    -Have some people not received their weapons? Yes
    -Have I found any indication that Legion Firearms has gone, or is going, bankrupt? No
    -Have I, personally, given up hope of ever receiving my order? No

    Throughout writing this post, I have tried to stick to stating what I know as fact as fact, and what I know as hearsay from the great internets as a whole as just that. I have also tried to be detailed enough where I can, without naming names. Hopefully, for those of you that are in my situation and know less, this will at least bring you up to speed with where I am at in the know. For those of you that are in my situation but know more, please do post with any information that you can provide or verify. I will attempt to keep this thread updated with any significant or useful information that I get, as I don't know of any single source for solid information regarding Legion Firearms orders on this forum or others.

  9. #29
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    I am going to pass the above message to legion and I'm hopping they reply on this board. I have LF15, LF10 and another upper made by them. I ordered my LF15 in sep12 and it took exactly 1 year for it to arrive to my door. They always answered my communications. I was aware of the problems why my rifle (specifically my upper) was taking so long and I was fine with that. It did arrive and is a awesome rifle.

    My LF10 is a little different story. My LF10 was the third made behind their T&E gun and Steve fishers gun. My LF10 was made on a mega arms matten reciever set, which is not what their production guns are made on. This is the reason why was able to get a LF10 so early. Legion made my LF10 before they could be ordered by the general public. Now my LF10 did arrive in the quoted time and is a very very impressive rifle.

    My upper I had made from a BCM barrel I sent them. As I understand there barrel producer is what is holding their production up. Believe me, they are trying to sort out their parts problem. With that said my upper was ready in the quoted time. I have yet to shoot it but look forward to it.

    Merlin37 I hope you are able to get ahold of them, they are shipping rifles every week. I hope your long wait is worth it in the end. They take great pride in the weapons they make, testing suppressed, unsurpressed and for groups. So know that when you do get your rifle it will preform to very high standards.




    Andy
    RLTW!

  10. #30
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    Hi all. I'm Adam Morehead, the CEO of Legion Firearms. I realize this is a rather lengthy post but I wanted to get it all out on the table. So here it is...

    I'll admit we’ve met our share of challenges in Legion’s short time in business so far. First of all, we’ve challenged ourselves to use new techniques and ideas to create the best weapon systems we possibly can. That continues to be our highest priority – bar none. We also challenged ourselves to change what people thought possible when ordering a truly high-quality firearm. That means providing not just a great gun, but also a great customer experience. That includes a level of transparency when we’re facing less positive challenges.

    The last year has proven more challenging than anyone could have anticipated. After the tragedy in Connecticut, the landscape of the firearms market changed drastically. As most of you know, more people have been buying semi-automatic weapons than ever before. Dealers have had trouble keeping firearms and ammunition on their shelves.

    What many of you may not know is, for those of us in the industry, this increase in demand has created enormous and ongoing challenges. While high-end rifles like Legion’s are not necessarily the primary subject of this purchasing frenzy, our rifles do share many of the parts that mass-produced rifles also require. Larger manufacturers were able to increase production at the expense of smaller manufacturers like Legion Firearms who ended up at the back of the line. We simply can’t compete with the big guys who can place purchase orders for 200,000 or more parts at a time. We’ve done whatever we could to keep shipping rifles and pistols, but we’ve been nowhere near able to keep up with the demand.

    To make matters worse, our barrel manufacturer suffered a huge blow as their primary facility was reclaimed by the government, forcing them to move at the worst possible time. Orders we expected in January didn’t arrive until August. After applying our HEX fluting and cryo-treatment to the barrels, we discovered a new problem: this large batch of barrels was not up to Legion’s uncompromising accuracy standards.

    This was incredibly demoralizing for us and for many of our customers who had been waiting patiently, some for as long as a year. Some of our staff have suffered physically from the stress of these setbacks. We’ve lost team members that we love. Our communication with customers has suffered, as have many of our business relationships.

    These challenges have affected us and our competitors alike. Some companies were forced to shut down completely. Others began shipping products with substandard components. We’re determined to find new ways to rise to the challenge. STAY IN THE FIGHT isn’t just a slogan. It’s our mission. It’s how we approach every challenge we face every day, no matter how large or small. We won’t compromise our ideals or the high standards our customers have come to expect by taking shortcuts to delivery. We will make first-rate products, regardless of how long it takes. That’s what we expect of ourselves. Nothing less than what we promise.

    As CEO, it’s up to me to keep that promise and to make Legion Firearms as prepared as it can be for future challenges.

    We’ve worked hard with our barrel maker to implement ways to identify and remedy issues before barrels leave the factory floor. In turn, the barrel vendor has worked hard to get us replacements and fix issues with existing units so that we can get back on track as soon as possible.

    We've brought in new blood (who some of you know already) with fresh eyes and unwavering dedication to help us deliver products I would have bet my life we would have delivered months ago.

    We’re working with new creditors and investors to expand our production and inventory capacity. I’m also proud to announce that we now produce our own uppers and lowers right here in Central Texas. These measures are designed to reduce our overall lead times and afford us a higher level of quality control. Moreover, these are huge steps toward ensuring that challenges like the ones we’ve faced this last year won’t happen again.

    It's been a slower process than we'd like but we have been shipping rifles and parts to customers as quick as we can while insuring the quality ya'll deserve.

    Over the last month, I’ve taken on a more involved role in the sales department. It’s my goal to talk to as many customers as I can as often as I can. If I haven’t already reached you personally, I want you to feel free to contact me directly. I can be reached at 512.646.2678, ext. 704, or by email at AdamMorehead@LegionFirearms.com.
    MCLMM
    Legion Firearms
    Texas

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