My review of the Handl Defense SCAR 25 lower for the SCAR 17 S

[chadgvn]

I have no idea on the efficacy of the competitors products, it is quite possible since it is a re-engineered Handl it could be quite nice. The Handl worked just fine for me, the complaints only come from one place with a specific agenda attached.

I would think that since they are going to be using the same data Handl developed, that it would function in a similar fashion. I think Handl figured it out, then everyone else who wanted to do the same thing, has to take the data that Handl developed. Form what others say the Handl lower has been on the market for about 18 months. I would think that the easy way through would to be to copy the pattern, then change it 10% to avoid any intellectual property violations.

In another story, I directly confronted this competitor and he did not deny anything that has been stated in this thread. He has free reign without the possibility of confrontation or accountability. FnFourms is very much a kleptocracy, a place where the masses are manipulated for the financial success of a few. If you have a product that one of the select is competing against, do not expect to farewell there, look at what happened to IWC there.

They are trying to corner the SCAR market by slandering the competition on the primary FN based site on the net. It is tolerated, it is supported, and endorsed by the ownership. Anything for a buck I guess is one way to live your life.

[G19A3]

I have no idea on the efficacy of the competitors products, it is quite possible since it is a re-engineered Handl it could be quite nice. The Handl worked just fine for me, the complaints only come from one place with a specific agenda attached.

I would think that since they are going to be using the same data Handl developed, that it would function in a similar fashion. I think Handl figured it out, then everyone else who wanted to do the same thing, has to take the data that Handl developed. Form what others say the Handl lower has been on the market for about 18 months. I would think that the easy way through would to be to copy the pattern, then change it 10% to avoid any intellectual property violations.

In another story, I directly confronted this competitor and he did not deny anything that has been stated in this thread. He has free reign without the possibility of confrontation or accountability. FnFourms is very much a kleptocracy, a place where the masses are manipulated for the financial success of a few. If you have a product that one of the select is competing against, do not expect to farewell there, look at what happened to IWC there.

They are trying to corner the SCAR market by slandering the competition on the primary FN based site on the net. It is tolerated, it is supported, and endorsed by the ownership. Anything for a buck I guess is one way to live your life.

Human nature does suck, I'll say that.

[TurretGunner]

I have no idea on the efficacy of the competitors products, it is quite possible since it is a re-engineered Handl it could be quite nice. The Handl worked just fine for me, the complaints only come from one place with a specific agenda attached.

I would think that since they are going to be using the same data Handl developed, that it would function in a similar fashion. I think Handl figured it out, then everyone else who wanted to do the same thing, has to take the data that Handl developed. Form what others say the Handl lower has been on the market for about 18 months. I would think that the easy way through would to be to copy the pattern, then change it 10% to avoid any intellectual property violations.

In another story, I directly confronted this competitor and he did not deny anything that has been stated in this thread. He has free reign without the possibility of confrontation or accountability. FnFourms is very much a kleptocracy, a place where the masses are manipulated for the financial success of a few. If you have a product that one of the select is competing against, do not expect to farewell there, look at what happened to IWC there.

They are trying to corner the SCAR market by slandering the competition on the primary FN based site on the net. It is tolerated, it is supported, and endorsed by the ownership. Anything for a buck I guess is one way to live your life.

Thanks for the info. I was not aware of the way they handle business over there. In all fairness, not many forums are open books and if you against the "grain" of those that have a financial interest......you can get my point.

[RHINOWSO]

Ok Handl lovers, riddle me this...

When is it gonna "catch on"? I mean the competitor that you both firmly state copied the design has yet to produce one for sale... so it's not like they are getting competition from there... yes, Cavalry put one out as well... so there is an option right now, but I've only seen a handful of reviews of the Cavalry lower...

Just wondering what the hold up is, or are they flying off the shelves like hotcakes but just not to SCAR users who post on the internet? Are they all going to the big hopefully .mil SCAR fixer upper project?

Serious question.

[chadgvn]

Rhino,

I will let Fox answer the questions about the Handl inner workings as he is the expert on that.

When I first saw the Handl I thought it to be like a metal glock lower for HK mags. Well it just so happens in the Ar-10 world everyone has those "hk" mags. So if you have an AR-10 it makes sense to buy it. I'd say it is 50/50 if the SCAR is your only 7.62 gun

I think there has to be a lot of SCAR owners that read what was posted in FN fourms. Some of it by a direct competitor, those who actively support his efforts, and attack his competitors (ask IWC). It is a classic case of libel and slander IMO, I am not the only one who thinks this. This attack has to have given some SCAR owners reservations on buying the Handl lower.

The first time I looked down into that lower, I was not real sure about taking it apart. I am sure others can't be as willing to go tearing into it. If I had never watched the instructions I would have never even tired it.

I would think that this is not a project for the rank amateur, as they would probably screw it up. There has too be alot of SCAR owners on the edge of buying a Handl but after what was done they have to be holding.

[BooneGA]

I purchased a Handl Lower for my SCAR 17s due to the fact that I already owned numerous M110 magazines. And with Magpul not supporting the factory lower with magazines the choice was rathe easy.

I have never put together a lower on an AR - just installed a Geissele SSA one time. I was able to swap the lower parts from the FN to the Handl lower easily - within minutes of owning the rifle.

I will admit the magazine release is not perfect and the safety had to be modified to allow for clearance of the Super SCAR Trigger (that in NO WAY affects its function). I have yet to take the weapon out as I am headed into the woods for a bit here, but Ill put it through its paces when I return. If it doesn't hold up, Ill simply try either the CAV or SEAL lowers next.

Rick

[Ferris2son]

Wow! There's enough disinformation in this thread to choke a horse.

[BooneGA]

Wow! There's enough disinformation in this thread to choke a horse.

What are you referring to exactly?

[ryr8828]

If a competitor stole the design, why haven't they put it up for sale yet? I keep hearing this rumor, yet the guy accused of stealing is still apparently in the R&D stage. Also, the guy accused of stealing already was modifying scar17 lowers to accept pmags and has been for some time. Did handl completely engineer his lower with just the use of a scar upper, or did he copy parts of it off an existing scar lower? Is that also stealing? I have no dog in this fight, just don't understand all the accusations and butthurt.

At $39 (sometimes on sale, seen them for $27 and $34) for a factory scar17 mag vs. $19 for a pmag, how many pmags do you have to buy before you pay for a handl? Too many for it to be a consideration for me. .308 pmags were unobtanium for close to a year anyhow.

In handl's faq page they recommend kac magazines which are $125 on the kac site.

Yes I have dropped a scar17 mag and had the baseplate fly off. I think I can fix that problem without spending $350.

[RHINOWSO]

Honestly, aside from users who have multiple semi-auto 7.62x51 rifles or a long shot .mil contract, or the guy who just can't deal with a polymer lower on a rifle (yet carries a G19, lol), I have always had a hard time seeing this type of item take off and being something every SCAR user would have to have.

I understood it in the days of ZERO OEM SCAR 17 mags being available and plentiful PMAG 20LRs, but now that it has been resolved, I see a lot of users (like myself) sticking with OEM mags. I just put rubber magpuls on the bottom of my mags to prevent damage when dropping them.

Anyway, it's nice to have a calm discussion about it.