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Thread: Does your SHTF rifle have a red dot or magnified optics?

  1. #131
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    I've got an Aimpoint PRO with MBUS on my only AR. I keep a spare battery in the grip. The battery life is supposed to be 3 years when left on.
    Quote Originally Posted by WickedWillis View Post
    Well I cannot talk about the other ones, but in my experience Unicorn Jizz is the most quality coating out there. Bar None.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by moe smith View Post
    +1 ^^^ No muss, no fuss.
    Have you found any limitations at night with irons?



    C4

  3. #133
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    Aimpoints with Troy BUIS on all my rifles.
    - Either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape - Sam (Robert DeNiro) in, "Ronin" -

  4. #134
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    I live in a very rural place with a mix of open fields, hills, and small mountains. Right now my first choice would be my LW 14.5" rifle with a T1, fixed DD sights, Inforce white light/IR light, DBALI2. I've got three ways to aim the rifle during the day, four during the night in conjunction with PVS14. I have extra CR123s, an extra Aimpoint battery, an extra bolt, cam pin, firing pin, gas rings, and lube stored in the stock/grips. The rifle has been dropped on concrete and a chunk taken out of the Aimpoint and the sights, but it maintained zero.

    With the Aimpoint zeroed at 100, I can consistently hit the 310 yard plate by placing the Aimpoint toward the top of the plate. At 400, I can hit it more than I miss it holding POA at 12 on the plate. At 550, I miss it slightly more than I hit it, but I can hold the entire 4 MOA dot above the plate like a figure 8 and the trajectory seems right. I haven't been able to connect on our 650 yard plate with this setup, yet. I believe its mostly wind and the accuracy limits of my rifle/ammo/optic. Thus far, the Aimpoint seems faster and easier than a magnified optic, but I wouldn't mind trying one more extensively---I don't see myself needing to hit targets with a 14.5" barrel at 650. I used to have a Zeiss 4.5-14x, but I never used it all that much except to accuracy test rifles and work up hand loads. I recently mounted my 3.5-10x Mark 4 to an 18" upper and look forward to using it more extensively as a lighter alternative to my .308 gas gun. Perhaps a 1-6x or 1-8x would be a good alternative on the 14.5" rifle that would extend its capabilities, but right now I don't think I want to make the investment.

    I have another AR with a FSP rail, FSB intact, fixed DD rear sight, Surefire G2, and Aimpoint Comp M2. This is an extra gun that I just shoot once in a while, but its completely functional and has a good zero.

    I'm very familiar with optics on precision rifles and can hit 16" plates with boring regularity with my bolt action and .308 AR out to 800. I like that ability, but neither of these rifles is very useful under 200 yards. They are also very heavy and slow. While the ability to make 800+ yard shots with certainty is great, that wouldn't be my priority in a SHTF situation. I'm certain I'd have far more weight than I'd want to carry and a secondary 14 lb rifle wouldn't be welcomed.

    A person should pick their poison and train.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Have you found any limitations at night with irons?



    C4
    I haven't shot at night, so I can't give a qualified answer as to whether irons would be better, or worse than optics. My assumption is they'd be better given the fall off in target image through a scope as dusk approaches, unless you're using night vision. If you're using red dots then I suppose you're dependent on electronics and their potential failings. ( I try to remove as many weak links as possible) Don't get me wrong, I see the value in them, I'm just not sure I want to depend on them for the type of scenario laid out in the OP. The disclaimer is I am not thrilled with red dots to begin with as I have a hard time chasing the bouncing red ball around with my astigmatism and glasses. I prefer planting the front post on target and lighting it up for close in stuff anyway. Anything further out I suppose I'd be calling in artillery, if the EMP didn't kill my cell phone.

    Currently I am shopping for a variable power scope, illuminated, side focus in the 3-9 / 4-16 range with a QD mount for leisurely range bench time, but I wouldn't consider leaving it on the rifle for shtf or night applications

  6. #136
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    MOE, I'd recommend you try shooting at night and try a RDS as well. Half the day is night and night is when bad people like to do bad things. You'll be amazed how your assumptions aren't exactly accurate. Remember, you can always rip off a red dot if it does fail.

    How is it harder to follow a "bouncing red dot" than a bouncing front sight post seen through a tiny circle? I have astigmatism too, and the dot looks more like a rod, but it doesn't stop it from being effective. I'm probably not the best at explaining this, but I'll try anyway: Are you looking AT the dot or the target? Look through the red dot sight at the target and just simply see the dot and you'll find you're much faster and it works in the dark very well. You can actually use a red dot with this method with your front lens cover on and it won't slow you down.

    Your logic is like saying I would rather have a horse than a car because the car may break down.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by moe smith View Post
    I haven't shot at night, so I can't give a qualified answer as to whether irons would be better, or worse than optics. My assumption is they'd be better given the fall off in target image through a scope as dusk approaches, unless you're using night vision. If you're using red dots then I suppose you're dependent on electronics and their potential failings. ( I try to remove as many weak links as possible) Don't get me wrong, I see the value in them, I'm just not sure I want to depend on them for the type of scenario laid out in the OP. The disclaimer is I am not thrilled with red dots to begin with as I have a hard time chasing the bouncing red ball around with my astigmatism and glasses. I prefer planting the front post on target and lighting it up for close in stuff anyway. Anything further out I suppose I'd be calling in artillery, if the EMP didn't kill my cell phone.

    Currently I am shopping for a variable power scope, illuminated, side focus in the 3-9 / 4-16 range with a QD mount for leisurely range bench time, but I wouldn't consider leaving it on the rifle for shtf or night applications
    Why a 3-9 over a 2.5-10? Why wouldn't you leave it on the rifle? 2.5x is very usable at close ranges.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerw02 View Post
    MOE, I'd recommend you try shooting at night and try a RDS as well. Half the day is night and night is when bad people like to do bad things. You'll be amazed how your assumptions aren't exactly accurate. Remember, you can always rip off a red dot if it does fail.

    How is it harder to follow a "bouncing red dot" than a bouncing front sight post seen through a tiny circle? I have astigmatism too, and the dot looks more like a rod, but it doesn't stop it from being effective. I'm probably not the best at explaining this, but I'll try anyway: Are you looking AT the dot or the target? Look through the red dot sight at the target and just simply see the dot and you'll find you're much faster and it works in the dark very well. You can actually use a red dot with this method with your front lens cover on and it won't slow you down.

    Your logic is like saying I would rather have a horse than a car because the car may break down.
    Thanks. Maybe I just need more time behind the red dot. For me it orbits the front post like sputnik. Some have said my cheek weld isn't consistent. Perhaps. But personally, beyond the objections outlined earlier, I find I almost have tunnel vision with an optic, be it red dot or scope. Open sights I seem to maintain better situational awareness. I'm sure I could probably overcome most of the objectionable elements I've described with training, and I may. But for the moment, as it stands right now, they're irons.

  9. #139
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    Well, it depends on the SHTF...

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    Why a 3-9 over a 2.5-10? Why wouldn't you leave it on the rifle? 2.5x is very usable at close ranges.
    Yeah, actually I wouldn't mind a 2.5-10. Do you have a suggestion for one with side focus, illuminated reticle for under 6.5 million? I think awhile back I was trying to get my hands on a Vortex to try it out but I couldn't find a brick and mortar retailer that had them, so that idea kind of got pushed aside. I don't recall if it had the other feature I've since decided to want included. Maybe I'll revisit that idea. Thanks.

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