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Thread: Does your SHTF rifle have a red dot or magnified optics?

  1. #191
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    Target identification? I'd recommend using binoculars or a spotting scope for that. I would advise against pointing a firearm at a person to figure out who they are. Don't point your weapon at something you don't wish to destroy. Know your target. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. I'd hate to think I'm having a loaded firearm pointed at me as I approach my neighbors to borrow a cup of sugar, just so he could id me.


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  2. #192
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    We are talking about the mythical SHTF with raping, pillaging and general unlawfulness right?
    If so, all bets are off.
    If you threaten me or mine or display hostile intent in anyway during this "chaos" you will be fired upon. Advancing, retreating, doesn't matter. I'll be doing everything I can to convince you not to come near me again. Ever. Up to and including firing at you from a distance.

    To say a long distance engagement couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't happen is unrealistic.
    Last edited by Scoby; 02-02-14 at 08:55.
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  3. #193
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    My two go-to rifles:

    14.5" DD M4V7LW - Eotech EXPS2-0
    16" Legion - Kahles K16i 1-6x

    The more time I spend with a good variable, the more I think it would be "THE" optic choice if I could only have one. You gain a lot of capability while sacrificing very little speed up close, if any. Really covers all the bases of any SHTF scenario I can think of.
    Director of Business Development - Unity Tactical, LLC - Design and Validation for the tactical community.
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  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedRacer View Post
    My two go-to rifles:

    14.5" DD M4V7LW - Eotech EXPS2-0
    16" Legion - Kahles K16i 1-6x

    The more time I spend with a good variable, the more I think it would be "THE" optic choice if I could only have one. You gain a lot of capability while sacrificing very little speed up close, if any. Really covers all the bases of any SHTF scenario I can think of.
    It will take a little getting used to, but a variable is the way to go, mine has a 4" relief. http://www.eurooptic.com/vortex-vipe...st-14st-m.aspx I also have the http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...1-mrad-reticle mounted on my LR .308. I have used many types of optics in the past for many different uses, prior to using a variable, I used the T1 and a 3x constantly. As I stated before, it's just too much to keep flipping/turning and keeping four lenses clean instead of two. I am pretty sure most of here know what K.I.S.S. means. It truly is the best of both worlds, give it a try, maybe buy a cheap one to get the idea, once you figure it out, buy a system you can depend on.

    On my last deployment I used my issued M68, T1 with a 3x and a MEOPTA ZD. The 68 is built for the task for sure, the T1 and 3x worked flawlessly, the MEOPTA is a great unit, just not rugged enough for combat in my opinion (turret caps are too fine of thread and got cross threaded when I hit it dismounting my vic, had to take it apart later that night so I could make adjustments to windage). I do not abuse my gear, but I use it as I need, how I need.
    Maybe someday I will do a write up of the three systems and what I learned, I will be going through the paces this summer with my Vortex, unfortunately it will not be a real combat situation. No matter what anyone says, it's different when it's live and your decision making is life dependent.

    Here's a pic of the MEOPTA, as you can see I am speaking from first hand experience, not repeating what I read from the internet. If you notice, I buy what I use, and use the same gear in and out of the military.
    Last edited by TACTICAL45; 02-02-14 at 10:32.
    CHECK YOUR SIX!!!

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  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerinTPA View Post
    The folks that don't think they need a RDS, light or a variable powered scope (I have a 1x4 scope as an option, illuminated reticle, with a cat tail that works just fine at 1x, on par with my aimpoints) are making a lot of untested assumptions, and need to run their set up in a carbine course and a night/low light course to test their accuracy and decision making process before ignoring well tested fact based opinions. Those that think they don't need a light, being that in winter, darkness is the predominant time period of a 24 hr cycle, I'd like to hear your defense in shooting someone (FYI, a family member is the primary target of a nighttime shooting in many instances, over and over and over again) without having the ability to clearly ID your target. You'll quickly join the ranks of many Bubbas who've shot their daughter, son, wife or girlfriend in the middle of the night, because they 'heard somethin'...
    This. ESPECIALLY for new shooters.
    I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. - John Adams

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  6. #196
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    I learned on irons and am just as fast with them as I am my Eotech XPS (which is the tits). Most of my guns wear fixed, non-folding irons.
    My main SHTF rifle has the Eotech, and if it fails on me, it only takes a second to remove it, then I have irons - not a big deal to me. The Eotech is nice, and Aimpoints are kinda cool, but the more complicated you make something, the more likely it is to fail. I like to keep my rifles simple. Plus, if the SHTF, there could eventually be a battery issue. Irons don't need batteries.

  7. #197
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    3-9 variable with BUIS, I learned on irons so I'm quite good with them. Sidearm has tritium sights and shotgun has modified choke with home defense rounds.

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  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by TACTICAL45 View Post
    It will take a little getting used to, but a variable is the way to go, mine has a 4" relief. http://www.eurooptic.com/vortex-vipe...st-14st-m.aspx I also have the http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...1-mrad-reticle mounted on my LR .308. I have used many types of optics in the past for many different uses, prior to using a variable, I used the T1 and a 3x constantly. As I stated before, it's just too much to keep flipping/turning and keeping four lenses clean instead of two. I am pretty sure most of here know what K.I.S.S. means. It truly is the best of both worlds, give it a try, maybe buy a cheap one to get the idea, once you figure it out, buy a system you can depend on.

    On my last deployment I used my issued M68, T1 with a 3x and a MEOPTA ZD. The 68 is built for the task for sure, the T1 and 3x worked flawlessly, the MEOPTA is a great unit, just not rugged enough for combat in my opinion (turret caps are too fine of thread and got cross threaded when I hit it dismounting my vic, had to take it apart later that night so I could make adjustments to windage). I do not abuse my gear, but I use it as I need, how I need.
    Maybe someday I will do a write up of the three systems and what I learned, I will be going through the paces this summer with my Vortex, unfortunately it will not be a real combat situation. No matter what anyone says, it's different when it's live and your decision making is life dependent.

    Here's a pic of the MEOPTA, as you can see I am speaking from first hand experience, not repeating what I read from the internet. If you notice, I buy what I use, and use the same gear in and out of the military.
    Great real world data and thank you for your service.
    Formerly known as "Son of Vlad Tepes"

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerw02 View Post
    Target identification? I'd recommend using binoculars or a spotting scope for that. I would advise against pointing a firearm at a person to figure out who they are. Don't point your weapon at something you don't wish to destroy. Know your target. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. I'd hate to think I'm having a loaded firearm pointed at me as I approach my neighbors to borrow a cup of sugar, just so he could id me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think the real question is how bad do you need that brown sugar that you're out looking for some during this SHTF scenario? "Well, if I'm gonna fight to the death later i better bake some cookies"...
    "Why "zombies"? Because calling it 'training to stop a rioting, starving, panicking, desperate mob after a complete governmental financial collapse apocalypse' is just too wordy." or in light of current events: "training to stop a rioting, looting, molotov cocktail throwing, skinny jeans wearing, uneducated bunch of lemmings duped by, or working directly for, a marxist organization attempting to tear down America while hiding behind a race-based name"

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerw02 View Post
    Target identification? I'd recommend using binoculars or a spotting scope for that. I would advise against pointing a firearm at a person to figure out who they are. Don't point your weapon at something you don't wish to destroy. Know your target. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded. I'd hate to think I'm having a loaded firearm pointed at me as I approach my neighbors to borrow a cup of sugar, just so he could id me.
    And if said target is actually hostile and taking aim at you... would you want to have to put your binoculars or spotting scope down, pick up a rifle, set up again and reacquire the target?

    Binoculars are fantastic at spotting things, they have a great FOV and don't fatigue your eyes anywhere near as quickly as a scope does. However, you have a safety selector and the most important rule of firearm safety... keep your finger off the trigger... to prevent magical discharges of your firearm. I can't think of a better reason to have magnification than target identification. There are other reasons, but no better reasons.

    And you know what, if all else fails, the extra magnification for target identification can serve as a final, last chance to ensure your target is not your uncle you haven't seen in a couple years who made his way to your house after SHTF to be with family.
    Last edited by Koshinn; 02-02-14 at 14:01.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

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