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Thread: Does your SHTF rifle have a red dot or magnified optics?

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by TACTICAL45 View Post
    Thanks for helping out, but you were 20 minutes late.
    Isn't that always how it goes...

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorphCross View Post
    Isn't that always how it goes...
    Roger that Morph, I'm glad you took it in the spirit it was meant.
    CHECK YOUR SIX!!!

    Certified GLOCK ARMORER

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Man View Post
    When are the rules suspended, and why?

    If a SHTF situation ever occurs, I suspect the groups of people you would be opposing will not be playing by any rules.

    If you don't recognize what would surely be a dangerous situation your screen name may be very appropriate.
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  4. #224
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    Typically, I would have thought it was my DDM4V5, with Eotech. Now that I've seen how well my BCM MK12 upper performs, with my Vortex PST 1x4, I really like its close to mid range flexibility and would choose it. Ah. Who am I kidding? I'd tak'em both!

  5. #225
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    I'll probably run out of ammo long before I run out of battery life in a true SHTF scenario. And frankly, battery life would be the last of my concerns in such situation. But I'm running a PA 1-6x with Samson BUIS.

  6. #226
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    There is no best SHTF optic because there are too many SHTF scenarios.

    While I agree that the variables (1-4Xs since I can't afford the good 1-6Xs) are great, and a nice compromise, they're just not for me.

    I tried two of the best values (the Burris MTAC--way better FOV than almost any, a daylight visible BDC horseshoe, and very light at 14ounces though they're advertised as more, AND the TR24R) but:
    (a) the 1X was a bit weird super close in (not that you'd probably use it close-in),
    (b) combined with mounts they were just too heavy after you get used to running just irons or a a T1, and
    (c) the eye-box (though famously great on both models) just isn't nearly as forgiving and fast as a red dot FOR ME.
    For now I Quick-Attach a magnifier when I want to sight the gun in and could see using the magnifier if needed as a makeshift scope or monocular; however, if Trijicon ever puts out a TR24R with a BDC/ranging reticle (like the TA31 chevron), I'll probably have to get another.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    If a SHTF situation ever occurs, I suspect the groups of people you would be opposing will not be playing by any rules.

    If you don't recognize what would surely be a dangerous situation your screen name may be very appropriate.
    This reply will also serve to address the couple of replies to my last post

    I'm picking up a lot of false dilemma in this debate. As I stated, I can see the necessity of glassing things and even people you have not decided to shoot.

    My argument, I'll state again, is in regard to the abandonment of an ethic on the topic. Eurodriver seems to be implying that in a "combat situation," necessarily of his own definition or even invention (he has not clarified), the rules are suspended, to the point that he will aim his "loaded weapon" directly at an unarmed human being for no better reason than to take a photograph of himself aiming a loaded weapon at an unarmed human being. He cites his circumstances as justification for violations of the rules, or that the circumstances (whatever they be) suspend the rules.

    To address the first statement of the quote above: I'm quite sure the circumstances of some kind of "SHTF" situation would change how I generally handle and employ firearms. But not by much. No. Not by much. I still would not knowingly aim my weapon at anyone I was not at least potentially going to fire on. I would not use my weapon's magnified optic as binoculars. I would use binoculars, if there were no exigent circumstances; no demand for time performance; no need to be ready to fire at any moment. If there's no shooting going on and no reason to believe shooting will begin soon, there's no exigency, and therefore no extenuation of ethical burden.

    We're not talking about increasing risk by following arbitrary rules. We're talking about valuing the life and health of other non- enemy-combatant people enough to not point guns at them. That applies whether we're in combat or not.

  8. #228
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    ^^^^^^ I think the picture really scared him, even though you were giving a demonstration. You have to remember that there are gun owners out there that do not make their living with their weapons and do not fully understand what they could possibly be taking on when owning such things. Yes, some just like to "dress up" and look "tacticool", some even like the sport of shooting, might even find it relaxing like I do, yes there is the thrill of it as well. Some hardly ever take their weapons out and shoot them because they might get dirty or scratched up. Remember, this is a forum, with several thoughts and ideas, so far no one seems to have broken the rules here on M4C regarding this topic. Please do not try and push your thoughts and ideas on someone because you don't see things the way they do. It will make a good thing go bad quick. Let's get back to the original topic, or maybe start your own thread about how you feel about such things?
    CHECK YOUR SIX!!!

    Certified GLOCK ARMORER

  9. #229
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    Does your SHTF rifle have a red dot or magnified optics?

    I really think there are more things to consider. The hunting analogy is null because you've identified it as a game animal before aiming your rifle. You wouldn't point your rifle at an orange vest to see who it was. Personally, I use binos constantly when hunting to scan. When I see or hear movement I bino, then ready my bow and take position. Oftentimes I've found moving the rifle or bow is more likely to alert game than simply scanning with binos.

    I believe dead man described the military/LE side already.

    But beyond those situations consider tactics, what happens when whoever is running security for this unknown puts one through you for pointing a rifle at his buddy? We already use this as reason to use deadly force---when one feels threatened by somebody obviously capable of deadly force, one may defend themselves in most jurisdictions. This is our civil society with the rule of law.

    Good luck to you. I hope none of this ever matters to any of us. I hope the person who means you no harm doesn't feel threatened when you point your rifle at him. Hopefully it doesn't cost you or another person their life for needless escalation.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by tylerw02; 02-03-14 at 10:07.

  10. #230
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    This thread is not about actions in combat, debate on the 4/5 firearms safety rules, or who can better argue minutia/circumstance.
    This thread is about optics, and optics choices.
    Back on topic please.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

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