Getting over the need for daylight bright illumination in low-powered variables

[Ironman8]

That one came through ra2bach. Thanks for following up and linking that thread. I do like the 1-6x reticle, but I think (as much as I can tell from internet pics) that the heavy duplex-like bars on the 1-4x may guide your eye towards the center donut on 1x a tad better when illumination can't/doesn't play that role. Do you find yourself searching for the donut on a dark target background when illumination isn't used (vs having the duplex lines guide you)?

My only real question with the 1-4x is how usable the mil reticle is on 4x? Are accurate holds out to 400 possible or is the reticle still a little too small, being that its FFP? Distance shots take a backseat to speed up close for me, but it would be nice to have both.

[ra2bach]

the center donut, IMO, is plenty obvious by itself that it doesn't need bars to find it quickly @ 1x. It's pretty bold and even with no illum, it shows well against dark targets. ask yourself, how have we gotten along for years with scopes with no illum? I've never had a problem with my hunting scopes even in very dim light. although I never tried shooting a black bear in heavy cover at night...

I think F2s hit on a concept that I've always accepted but never made a big deal of - when a scope with minimal illum is on a light colored target, the reticle appears black. on a dark target, it will have enough to provide contrast with the background. it's self-adjusting. the size/pattern of the reticle makes up for the lack of glowing dot. and even though the pics show it to be plenty bright on light targets in daylight, I don't need Aimpoint bright on everything I put in front of my eye...

I agree, ranging with a 4x is self-limiting in that you won't be able to get very precise at the limits of 4x.the 1-4 is good, I just think the 1-6 is more of a good thing. the difference is that @ 4x, I always wished for a little more. not magnification, but size of reticle...

in order for it to be the proper size at 1x, only increasing it 4x leaves it a little small for distance shot. the 6x gives a whole mil reticle image with no circle visible. 6x, IMO, is plenty for the type of shooting I want to do at the practical limits of 5.56. it helps that this glass is very nice.

check this page for the reticle subtensions on the 1-6 - http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Ta...pe-P53845.aspx

[jonconsiglio]

That one came through ra2bach. Thanks for following up and linking that thread. I do like the 1-6x reticle, but I think (as much as I can tell from internet pics) that the heavy duplex-like bars on the 1-4x may guide your eye towards the center donut on 1x a tad better when illumination can't/doesn't play that role. Do you find yourself searching for the donut on a dark target background when illumination isn't used (vs having the duplex lines guide you)?

My only real question with the 1-4x is how usable the mil reticle is on 4x? Are accurate holds out to 400 possible or is the reticle still a little too small, being that its FFP? Distance shots take a backseat to speed up close for me, but it would be nice to have both.

On the vx-r 1.25-4, I've gotten pretty quick with it, but I'm using the dot. The black circle is pretty thin but still usable. It just takes a split second more to pick up, so with this particular optic, I wouldn't want to run it without the dot. But doing some stuff indoors with 500 lumen Surefire, it's considerably quicker than I would have thought.

For whatever reason, the mil dots are spaced 2.5 mils apart on the VX-R, but they're still useable. I like the exposed turrets and prefer to use that with this particular reticle, I just HATE that they don't lock.

After handling the MK6 1-6 at SHOT, I'm pretty certain that's my next optic sometime around this summer. The USO sounds promising and I'd give up 6x for an Aimpoint like dot, though it's a few ounces heavier than the MK6. I'd need to handle one of course. For the price I can get the Mk6, it would be pretty hard to choose anything else over it though.

I'm not sure how all the others work, but the VX-R red dot is visible all around the optic even when the reticle is not visible due to beig outside the eye box (drawing a blank on terms right now). So, it's almost working like an Aimpoint with the front lens cover closed. There's certainly some parallax to deal with, but at the ranges I'd use that feature it's hardly even noticeable.

I can definitely see these replacing an Aimpoint for some people, it just takes some effort and time to get used to the differences. I see so many people using red dots wrong anyway (centering the dot instead of shooting when visible, shooting with a cowitness, etc) that there wouldn't be much first round speed penalty by moving to a 1-4.

[Koshinn]

Is the Mk6 CMR-W usable without illumination at 1x?

[PatrioticDisorder]

Is the Mk6 CMR-W usable without illumination at 1x?

Not very effectively, it has 2 lines that will give you a coarse aiming point with light... That said battery life is reported to be very good with the Leupy, though I don't have numbers. I've always thought the ideal set up on a general purpose AR would be a Leupy Mk6 1-6 with a 1 O'Clock aimpoint micro... If you ran a set up like that, you don't have much to worry about with battery life.

[ASH556]

And so the circle goes...if you're going to have the offset Aimpoint, why not have more magnification in your optic? 1X isn't as important when you have the offset dot, so something like a Nightforce 2.5-10 begins to make more sense.

[El Cid]

Jack, I get what you're saying about how some reticles allow for fast, reliable use in the 1x range. But is that just for shooters who don't want or can't spend the extra coin on something like a Short Dot or Z6i?

I ask because there are obviously reasons we use RDS's on long guns and not 1x black donuts. I don't see any disadvantage to my Z6i when used up close as a red dot. Clearly the shooter is the most important part of the equation (software > hardware), and mastering a non-illuminated optic when a variable is needed can be quite effective. But for me I'd view that as a step backwards in capability.

[Koshinn]

And so the circle goes...if you're going to have the offset Aimpoint, why not have more magnification in your optic? 1X isn't as important when you have the offset dot, so something like a Nightforce 2.5-10 begins to make more sense.

Concur, I always thought a 2.5-10 with T-1 is a great all-around setup.

Then Leupold had to go be Leupold and release the Mk6 3-18. Then SOCOM bought a whole bunch of the Mk6 3-18s with a T-1 on top.

So now... I think that's the better setup to be honest, especially if you get the lower profile elevation knob on the Mk6 so the T-1 can be directly on top rather than on the side.

If I ran a 1-4/6/8, I wouldn't run an offset or piggyback red dot. It's kind of a waste of money to be honest with all that capability overlap, and you can still use a 4 or 6 power in close quarters in a pinch via BAC. It's not ideal, but neither is an offset or piggyback RDS (offset blocks your left eye, piggyback gives you a weird chin-weld). In both cases, you can turn your magnification down when you get a couple of seconds breathing space. While I wouldn't consider a RDS, I'd consider KAC offset folding irons though, depending on if my optic mount was QD or not.

[mike240]

The views of this thread have been interesting since I have been working with a 1-4 quite a bit lately. But for a reason not yet mentioned. Since my eyes have changed again, I can correct to see the Aimpoint dot clear as well as target and beyond, but iron sights on the pistol are a mess. Other glasses with monocular set up (left eye for distance, right eye for pistol sight distance) make iron sights crisp but Aimpoint a blobbed mess.

The 1-4 allows me use my pistol sight glasses due to the ability to focus the reticle regardless of eye correction needed. I don't like the added weight since I really don't need the magnification at work. The leupold prismatic started getting attention again at least for SBR but mounting options without loosing zero seem to be an issue.

Now if only Aimpoint had a focus ring on the back of a micro...

1-4/6s are probably to stay in my future and I'll just have to get faster with them.

[Singlestack Wonder]

Now if only Aimpoint had a focus ring on the back of a micro...

Wouldn't help with astigmatism.