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Thread: A lightweight Mk12 off-shoot concept. "The handy rifle"

  1. #1
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    A lightweight Mk12 off-shoot concept. "The handy rifle"

    I've been aggregating parts for this build for a long time, and am still not done. Right now, what I have weighs 7lbs 6.7oz with everything but a sling attached and a magazine inserted. The weight is what you see in the images minus the magazine. Parts list:

    (Upper)
    BCM Blem upper
    Rainier Arms Mountain Series 18" gov profile with rifle gas (Cold Hammer Forged and double-thickness chrome lined; made by FNH USA)
    Precision Armament AFAB
    Black River Tactical pinned and set-screwed low pro Gas Block (from the kit)
    Rainier Arms/Samson 15" Evo handguard with sling mount attached
    Magpul MBUS gen2 front and rear
    Aimpoint T1 in a Larue LT660 QD mount w/ a tan iO Cover
    BCM Gunfighter mod 4 charging handle
    V7 systems light weight ejection port door
    LMT E-carrier with std LMT bolt


    (Lower)
    Spikes stripped lower (I know I know)
    Vltor A5 Recoil system with an A5H3 buffer and std Vltor RE endplate
    B5 Bravo Stock
    Magpul K2 grip (with std base plug installed)
    Magpul Aluminum Trigger Guard
    Geissele SSA-E
    Magpul BAD lever


    I'm about to drop more weight from the front when BCM releases their KMR13, which will replace my RA Evo 15" and will save just over 7oz from the front of the gun (nearly a half pound!). So, because it balances so well right now, I'll be able to slap on an Insight HSP WML w/ keymod mount and still probably be lighter than my current setup.

    Shoots REALLY smooth and I'm finding that for basic patrol work it might be perfect. The longer gas system alone buys you a TON of smoothness...it is noticeable over a 16" middy from BCM even with no muzzle device attached. Slap on the A5 system and any decent muzzle device and it's hog heaven. The AFAB is continuing to impress me with less blast than a BC and better muzzle stability than any dedicated brake I've recently shot. The package has a shootability and smoothness to the recoil stroke that is addicting. So, it's lighter than a Mk12 with its heavy profile Douglas SS barrel, but keeps to that same basic concept.

    The 'Handy Rifle' is what I've dubbed it. The exact model of handguard doesn't really matter, but it requires a FF 18" barrel with rifle gas, and some type of carbine (or A5) RE/stock. Similar to a Canadian C7 but shaving 2" from the barrel (and lighter as well).

    I think there is value in the configurable FF handguard, the act of free floating the barrel itself, and the additional barrel length for the added terminal performance it can provide when using well constructed bonded rounds (TBBC, Nosler Bonded base, etc.) over a 16" barrel.

    It weighs in at 7lbs naked (the T1 w/ Larue mount weighs 5.5oz, each MBUS weighs .8oz, etc.).

    My eventual goal will be a 7.0 lb, 18" rifle with the KMR and irons alone. I think this is reasonable. I'll also probably grab the V7 lightweight Mag Catch, ejection port rod, and their eventual LW forward assist if the price is reasonable. Those will gain me another ounce-and-change of weight savings I'd estimate...and I'll likely stop there.

    If BCM ever decides to make a fluted BFH-ELW 18" barrel with rifle gas (and chrome lined), I'm gonna be all over that. Though, at 1lb 13.1oz, there isn't a whole lot of weight to be shaved.....but there IS better balance to be achieved as ESK has stated about the other ELW barrels versus government profile barrels. The ELW profile more efficiently distributes the weight. But, regardless, I think I've gotten almost all of the low-hanging fruit for weight reduction until the KMR13 is released. I want a QD optic mount because it's a patrol carbine....if Larue swiss-cheesed their LT660, I'd be game for that as well. I don't currently trust anybody else to make bomb-proof, return-to-zero mounts like Larue.

    I think that I have found a personal sweet spot for barrel length, weight, and recoil impulse. This concept can still be employed effectively inside of a structure even though it is not optimal (but neither is anything longer than 12.5"). Vehicle ops are an issue...but how many of us are jumping out of patrol cars or humvees these days (mine rides in the trunk, anyhow)? I don't live on a ranch, but this would be my 'ranch rifle' if I did.

    Just wanted to offer this concept (which is not entirely new; there's nothing new under the sun) up to the community so that others might benefit.






    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  2. #2
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    The Ranier/Samson Evo is a fantastic handguard, super light and can stand up to a beating. Good choice
    Gun and Gear Reviews- www.almosttacticalreviews.com

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    Neat concept and a very cool build. I feel that if it weren't for NFA the AR bbl lengths would go from 14.5 straight to 18. 16 is the shortest you can go without pinning but it's kinda the worst of both worlds.

    Sent from my SCH-I500

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzook View Post
    The Ranier/Samson Evo is a fantastic handguard, super light and can stand up to a beating. Good choice
    They are under-rated...especially considering how long they've been out. If the KMR never existed, i would essentially have nowhere to go for this combination of modularity/weight/strength/price. The CMR also looks excellent, but it's a c-note more. That buys my WML.
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  5. #5
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    Almost literally the same build I'm working on now, except will be made with rainier arms components, and maybe a 1-4 ( still undecided).

    Ever thought about sending the barrel off to Pitts to get dimpled/fluted?

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    I really like the build but can't get my head wrapped around an 18" barrel and no rifle scope. My Leupie 1.25-4x Mark AR (no firedot) in a Larue 104 weighs in at 17 ounces which I suppose would make your build a lot less "handy". Supposedly the scope alone weighs 9 ounces.

    Sounds like you created a really smooth shooter between the rifle gas system, AFAB, and Vltor A5. Neat idea.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by richiecotite View Post
    Almost literally the same build I'm working on now, except will be made with rainier arms components, and maybe a 1-4 ( still undecided).

    Ever thought about sending the barrel off to Pitts to get dimpled/fluted?
    I've thought about it. But, a) I'm very happy with the weight now and b) I'd rather have a BCM ELW if/when they decide to make that. I think an 18" ELW fluted would set the 3-gun world on FIRE.

    Also, the portion under the handguard is already LW profile, the part in front would need some very aggressive fluting or dimpling.....just not worth the cost to me after shipping both ways.....but Marvin's stuff is ultra-slick.
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LewP View Post
    I really like the build but can't get my head wrapped around an 18" barrel and no rifle scope. My Leupie 1.25-4x Mark AR (no firedot) in a Larue 104 weighs in at 17 ounces which I suppose would make your build a lot less "handy". Supposedly the scope alone weighs 9 ounces.

    Sounds like you created a really smooth shooter between the rifle gas system, AFAB, and Vltor A5. Neat idea.
    I used to have that same preconception for 18" barrels. However, it is actually the perfect close quarter engagement device. Less recoil than a 16" and relatively low weight....and it just so happens to lend itself to accurate shooting at distance (though it is NOT a match barrel).

    My T1 (w/ battery) + Larue LT660 + iO Cover only weighs 5.5oz.
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  9. #9
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    Nice BufordT!
    I have been wondering what you were running from what you mentioned here and there in other threads. What a cool concept! It has largely been your success (along with Iraqgunz) that settled me on using the A5 system and E-carrier in my builds.

    I am curious how you made your MBUS weigh .8oz? I got 1.16oz for the front and 1.3oz for the rear on the Gen 2 MBUS.

    You will easily meet your weight goal with the BCM KMR. You may even get to 7oz with irons, optic, and WML (though maybe not with a light mount) using the BCM KMR and V7 parts. I never realized the 18" govt profile, rifle-length gas barrel was so light. It makes sense since the slim diameter before the gas port (what would be under the haundguards) extends nearly the length of the barrel with the long gas system, it is almost a lightweight profile.

    Thanks for posting!

    Btw, how 'bout the trick up your sleeve you mentioned in the V7 thread?

  10. #10
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    I think this build would benefit more from a 1x4.

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