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Thread: 1:7 twist with .22?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19trax95 View Post
    No offense taken at all. I will try to answer the question the best way I can. So, I am thinking about dropping another $300 on another upper because I would be able to use it. As opposed to spending that $300 on a better rifle where I doubt I'd notice any difference in use. I'll go back to my tool example again. Say I have a hammer, one is $20 the other one is $40. Both will do the same thing I want which is pound a few nails on the occasional project. Both have similar construction and both look the same. Logical I'd pick the cheaper one because there is a higher likely hood of me not being able to tell the difference in the way it hammers a nail.

    That is my thinking with the rifle. Now that isn't a good example but that's all I can think of. But now say since I bought that cheaper hammer I can now have money left to buy other tools (.22 conversion). So then I'd have a hammer that does what it should and say a set of screw drivers.

    I can't think of any other way to explain my thinking. But it may not be the right way to think but that's the way I am.

    And I just tried to search from my computer and I did find a few threads on similar questions. I guess I just need to figure out how to word it right.
    Are you talking about spending $300 on a regular 223/5.56 DI upper?? This may make more sense, as you can use it to shoot both 22lr and 223.

    On a previous post, you talked about a 1:15 upper. For $100 more you might as well buy a complete M&P15-22 rifle for $400 that is properly configured to shoot 22lr.


    Quote Originally Posted by 19trax95 View Post
    That's what I'm thinking now. The .22 upper wouldn't have a gas port right? The cmmg kit is $200 something so the difference is negligible.
    No, a dedicated 22lr should not have a gas port. 22lr are Blowback operated, not gas operated/DI.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19trax95 View Post
    No offense taken at all. I will try to answer the question the best way I can. So, I am thinking about dropping another $300 on another upper because I would be able to use it. As opposed to spending that $300 on a better rifle where I doubt I'd notice any difference in use. I'll go back to my tool example again. Say I have a hammer, one is $20 the other one is $40. Both will do the same thing I want which is pound a few nails on the occasional project. Both have similar construction and both look the same. Logical I'd pick the cheaper one because there is a higher likely hood of me not being able to tell the difference in the way it hammers a nail.

    That is my thinking with the rifle. Now that isn't a good example but that's all I can think of. But now say since I bought that cheaper hammer I can now have money left to buy other tools (.22 conversion). So then I'd have a hammer that does what it should and say a set of screw drivers.

    I can't think of any other way to explain my thinking. But it may not be the right way to think but that's the way I am.

    And I just tried to search from my computer and I did find a few threads on similar questions. I guess I just need to figure out how to word it right.
    Only problem with your hammers is one is a sledge hammer (1/7) and the other is a claw hammer (1/15). Guess which one will drive nails better.

  3. #13
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    The thing with the hammers was with the other thread he was referring to.

    I if I do anything with a conversion at this point I would be getting a dedicated separate .22 upper. In addition to the 5.56 upper that comes on the rifle

  4. #14
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    19trax95:

    I kinda feel where you are coming from.

    I wanted to do the occaissional cheap plinking/train new shooters with the 22LR kits. I didn't want to spend extra money to duplicate mil-spec accessories, like BUIS/RDS on a dedicated 22LR upper/rifle to exactly mimic my 5.56mm's setups.

    I have two Ceiner ($130 each, IIRC) and one old school Colt AR15 22LR conversion kits. All three have been extremely reliable with their respective mags, and the Ceiners with Gen1 27rd & Gen2 30rd Black Dog 22LR magazines. I personally prefer the more expensive CCI Minimags, but other ammo have shot fine.

    I have shot them through various Colt carbines with 1/7" and 1/9" pencil barrels. They have been very accurate, but I only shoot 22LR at 50 yds.

    The kits come in a compact plastic case, and along with a couple of tiny 22LR ammo boxes, I keep them in my range bag all the time just in case I want to plink anytime. So the conversion kits serve my purpose well. When I'm done playin with 22LR, I fire a few rounds of 5.56mm to blast any possible gas port blockage away.

    One word of caution is 22LR ammo doesn't shoot exactly POA/POI as 5.56mm. Just an inch or so difference at 50 yds. With a dedicated 22LR upper/entire rifle, you can always keep the sights dialed in for your favorite 22LR fodder and not change your sight settings back and forth. I shoot for small groups and don't play with my 5.56mm settings.

    At the moment, the point is moot as I'm almost out of 22LR ammo and not paying 5.56mm prices for them until they come down in price/availability.

    Also, you have it backwards in worrying if 1/7" will stabilize 22LR because it is too slow. In fact 1/7" is quite "fast" for 22LR. Optimum 22LR twist rate is 1/16", which is "slower." (i.e. Spinning the projectile slower.)
    Last edited by G19A3; 02-07-14 at 07:39.

  5. #15
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    I bought a CMMG conversion kit for my AR with Black Dog magazines and it works fine. With my 1:8 barrel, it's accurate enough to break clay pigeons out to 100 yards. After shooting 22 LR, I remove the conversion kit and fire a few centerfire rounds to blow out the lead. I like the conversion kit because I'm using the same upper & sights as my HD carbine

    Here's a good thread about conversion kits
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...e-AR15-M4-quot

    Most 22 LR use a 1:16 twist because the bullet is so short and usually round nosed. Tighter twists are need to stabilize long bullets with pointed noses and boatails.

    I read your other thread you're referring to. Think about your own contribution to it going sideways and how you can avoid that in the future. You can learn much from folks on this forum once you learn how to settle in. Here's something written by a man far wiser than I which I think will help you
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...4C-Style-Guide
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeM4 View Post

    I have the M&P15-22 which has a 1:15 twist rate. Its pretty accurate for my uses. Before I bought it, I was debating on buying the 22lr conversion kits, but I ended up buying a complete rifle instead.
    I bought one of these and was really surprised how accurate it was with most brands of 22,I can hit steel silhouettes easily @75 yds which I was very
    happy with. Pete
    CA. home built ARs=Where CHEAP isn't everything it's the
    ONLY thing! NRA Life 1974

  7. #17
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    I've tossed the rimfire idea back and forth for quite some time now, as my fiancé all but demanded a 22lr carbine... For $400 I can have a 15-22 rifle that does one thing really well. Given that I've spent that on lower parts for a rifle more than once, it's an easy decision to not have to compromise on a "good enough" conversion kit at 30% of the price of the complete build. Also have a little 1-4 rimfire optic for it from an old varmint gun...
    "SEND IT" happens to be my trigger words...

  8. #18
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    I definitely am going to go with a separate upper. It seems like those have less issues from reading those threads linked above. But I think I will shoot and get used to the 5.56 rifle before I go changing stuff up. Then afterwards I can get the upper. Thank you everyone. Some very helpful info in here and on this site.

  9. #19
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    I kind of skimmed through... but thought I'd throw my two cents in on twist rate vs accuracy.

    I have one of the cmmg stainless conversion kits and had a 1:7 barrel on my last rifle. Standing with a 2moa aimpoint I could still hit bowling pins at 100 yards with the 22 conversion, so while I'm sure it would be better in a slower twist, it's not terrible in a fast twist.

  10. #20
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    I used to run a .22 kit in my AR. Then I "ringed" a barrel due to a squib .22. If it was a 22 only I would have let it go, but since it was a 5.56 also I had to get it replace. You have to understand .22 ammo is dirty and subject to misfires much more than Centerfire ammo, and now you are running that junk thru the same rifle you want to use for serious purposes? No, I wouldn't.

    I eventually learned my lesson the hard way after the ruined barrel: if you want a .22, then buy a dedicated .22 upper or buy a S&W M&P-15-22 rifle. it works much better and you'll be happier in the long-run.

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