Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 82

Thread: What makes a competition gun not a good combat gun?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    3,988
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)
    Pretty much - you want a Dakar support truck equivalent if possible for combat weapons, while competition guns if they get the chance tend to be drift cars - excessive performance that usually isn't even necessary, but really impressive in the hands of the few.
    عندما تصبح الأسلحة محظورة, قد يملكون حظرون عندهم فقط
    کله چی سلاح منع شوی دی، یوازي غلوونکۍ یی به درلود
    Semper Fi
    "Being able to do the basics, on demand, takes practice. " - Sinister

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    2,740
    Feedback Score
    52 (98%)
    So what clearances or tolerances are tighter in a race gun than in a 'combat' gun?

    What about a MK12?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    98
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    I'll be one to voice a different opinion. When it comes to Limited and Open guns, I completely agree with you guys. Those guns are custom made to some VERY tight clearances, with tuned mags. I don't have one, but I've seen them be very finicky. But guns used in other divisions, and in 3gun, aren't all that different.

    My 3gun rifle has a Noveske Gen 2 lower, Geissele trigger, regular rifle spring & buffer, Ace Skeleton stock. Vltor upper, Aimpoint M3, BCM gas block, BCM BCG, Troy alpha rail. The only thing special about it would be that it has an 18" stainless fluted barrel. So I do not have an adjustable gas block tuned to my ammo. It eats any ammo ran through it. It has ran beautifully for me through several thousands rounds so far. I only clean it after the season it done, so it gets filthy dirty (I keep it wet with EWL). It gets abused, it gets thrown into barrels, and I've never had an issue with it.

    For single stack, I run a completely stock TRP with Wilson ETM mags. Runs like a top. For production, I run a 5" XD with a Springer trigger. I probably have 10k rounds through this so far. Not a single issue.

    We have one range within our 3gun series where distances don't exceed 50 yards. So for those matches, a lot of times I'll run my 16" BCM just to get some trigger time on it. I don't feel like I have any disadvantage when I make the switch either.

    Granted, there are others out there running rifles with adjustable gas blocks and/or weird optic setups that I would completely agree would be too finicky and not as durable. But I consider mine to be almost interchangeable.

    Just my .02

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA/OH
    Posts
    29,630
    Feedback Score
    33 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacti-square View Post
    I was reading DR's article on AA's new COR and started wondering why someone would want such a slick rifle like this for only some aspects of their life and not all of them. What can an M4 do that this can not, and vice versa? Personally I would consider this a very viable option for home defense or emergency situations. Would that be a poor decision?

    When looking for a gun to bet your life on, reliability is FIRST and accuracy is second. These two are often swapped in competition guns.

    Taking a quick look at the gun in question, the first thing that sticks out to me is the Comp. You do NOT put a compensator on a fighting gun. Without really knowing what else was done to this gun, I won't comment any further on it.

    I have worked with a lot of parts that are considered "gamer" components. There are some parts that come out of the gun game world that are a good idea. Others are stupid. When we look at a "combat" AR we have to ask the question; "How does it run when it is filthy? How does it run with less than ideal ammo? How about when it is extremely cold or hot?"

    People often snub their nose at "Mil-Spec" guns as being less than "quality." What they often times fail to realize is the Mi-Spec simply means that parts are across the board compatible. They are also held to a set standard. Can this be improved upon? Most certainly, but the question that always comes up is how much better is the none Mil-Spec part to the Mil-Spec part? How do you measure it? This is the hard part.


    If you find yourself buying a dedicated "gamer" AR, just make sure to run it hot and dirty for awhile in training classes.



    C4

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA/OH
    Posts
    29,630
    Feedback Score
    33 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by samuse View Post
    Mostly mechanically inept people who can't make anything work unless it's mil-spec stuff.

    I see competition guns run like scalded dogs for years without a hiccup.

    Same guys who kick your ass with a 19 or 2011 are the same ones who kick your ass with a 'gamer' AR that didn't malfunction while he was outrunning you...

    *My only AR is a functionally stock 6920.
    I have two STI 2011's that were rejected by Delta for combat duty because they were not reliable enough.

    Just sayin...


    C4

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Duarte, CA
    Posts
    721
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    When looking for a gun to bet your life on, reliability is FIRST and accuracy is second. These two are often swapped in competition guns.

    Taking a quick look at the gun in question, the first thing that sticks out to me is the Comp. You do NOT put a compensator on a fighting gun. Without really knowing what else was done to this gun, I won't comment any further on it.

    I have worked with a lot of parts that are considered "gamer" components. There are some parts that come out of the gun game world that are a good idea. Others are stupid. When we look at a "combat" AR we have to ask the question; "How does it run when it is filthy? How does it run with less than ideal ammo? How about when it is extremely cold or hot?"

    People often snub their nose at "Mil-Spec" guns as being less than "quality." What they often times fail to realize is the Mi-Spec simply means that parts are across the board compatible. They are also held to a set standard. Can this be improved upon? Most certainly, but the question that always comes up is how much better is the none Mil-Spec part to the Mil-Spec part? How do you measure it? This is the hard part.


    If you find yourself buying a dedicated "gamer" AR, just make sure to run it hot and dirty for awhile in training classes.



    C4

    Grant, may I ask why you are so opposed to have a compensator on a fighting gun? Over the years I have seen some various muzzle devices used on issued rifles by a wide range of individuals, active duty EOD, national guard infantry, and some more high speed types. Just to name two that stick in my mind, I remember seeing an EOD guy in Baghdad in '07 rocking an 11.5" (+- an inch) rifle with a JP recoil eliminator and a guy on my team, 11B, this past deployment that had a BattleComp on his M4. The one thing I did notice about the BattleComp is that it made the rifle report sound deeper in pitch. As to reliability, he was at the range almost every week for all 5 months and probably shot on average of 400 rounds thru it per trip, I know there were times when he would take his SureFire mag and do mag dumps all morning long, we had an insane amount of ammo to use up, truly wasteful, but we did get a lot of good training in as well. I think we were in the quietest part of Afghanistan lol.

    Personally, modifications that I make to every rifle that I'm issued, stateside or overseas is I swap out the pistol grip and charging handle for BCM versions, add a BAD lever, RSA and a Troy receiver sling mount (so I don't have to monkey with the staked end plate to swap it for a noveske QD one. I'll also swap the buttstock out for my CTR.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA/OH
    Posts
    29,630
    Feedback Score
    33 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
    Grant, may I ask why you are so opposed to have a compensator on a fighting gun? Over the years I have seen some various muzzle devices used on issued rifles by a wide range of individuals, active duty EOD, national guard infantry, and some more high speed types. Just to name two that stick in my mind, I remember seeing an EOD guy in Baghdad in '07 rocking an 11.5" (+- an inch) rifle with a JP recoil eliminator and a guy on my team, 11B, this past deployment that had a BattleComp on his M4. The one thing I did notice about the BattleComp is that it made the rifle report sound deeper in pitch. As to reliability, he was at the range almost every week for all 5 months and probably shot on average of 400 rounds thru it per trip, I know there were times when he would take his SureFire mag and do mag dumps all morning long, we had an insane amount of ammo to use up, truly wasteful, but we did get a lot of good training in as well. I think we were in the quietest part of Afghanistan lol.
    Have you ever seen one at night? HUGE FLASH. Ever shoot one in a room?? HUGE NOISE.

    With that said, I run the SF MB on my 10.5. This gun is ALWAYS shot with the can on it.

    If you are professional competing in a gun game and are in the top 10 (where half a second matters between winning and losing), for sure use a comp. For everyone else, the question is, why?


    C4

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Duarte, CA
    Posts
    721
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Makes sense, we did a fair amount of shooting at night on this last deployment and the BC wasn't kicking out much more of a flash than the A2s, a little bit more but not annoyingly so, but I do agree that it was substantially louder to us to his right and left, part of the reason why I didn't bother putting on my SF MB, the rest of the team would have hated me. Thankfully we didn't have to do any indoor shooting.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA/OH
    Posts
    29,630
    Feedback Score
    33 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
    Makes sense, we did a fair amount of shooting at night on this last deployment and the BC wasn't kicking out much more of a flash than the A2s, a little bit more but not annoyingly so, but I do agree that it was substantially louder to us to his right and left, part of the reason why I didn't bother putting on my SF MB, the rest of the team would have hated me. Thankfully we didn't have to do any indoor shooting.
    All comps are different. Some do an ok job at flash suppression (like the BCM). Still none hold a candle to the simple A2 (which in turn doesn't hold a candle to some of the better pronged FH's).



    C4

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vegas
    Posts
    6,717
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Doesn't the AK74 have a break on front as standard?
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •