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Thread: What makes a competition gun not a good combat gun?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
    Grant, may I ask why you are so opposed to have a compensator on a fighting gun?
    The comp in that picture is definitely for competition. Some of those really throw off some concussion towards people watching and especially the RO. I could see that being a huge issue if two guys are standing side by side shooting.

  2. #32
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    I don't know where this idea of "reliability is secondary" in comp guns came from, but when I first started pistol comp and then moved into 3gun, I was taught reliability was numero uno. Nothing worse for your scores than to have your gun crap out in the middle of a stage. I still shoot 3gun and reliability is still no. 1, at least with guys I shoot with.

  3. #33
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    To add on to what has been said already..
    A typical game gun will have an 18 lightweight barrel with a rifle LE goth gas system for a smoother recoil impulse, a comp for keeping the gun on target for fast doubles, lightened bolt carrier and tuned buffer setup for less reciprocating mass.

    Light triggers with short reset, long smooth handguards, no lights, lasers, etc.

    They shoot amazingly smooth, no recoil and flat.

    They are built to compete and shave time.

    I go back and forth between one and a good all around 16" middy as I would like to be able to train and run the latter gun extremely well and am not all that serious about competing other than I want to do my best, not suck and not have gear choke.
    Charles Coker

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    I don't know where this idea of "reliability is secondary" in comp guns came from, but when I first started pistol comp and then moved into 3gun, I was taught reliability was numero uno. Nothing worse for your scores than to have your gun crap out in the middle of a stage. I still shoot 3gun and reliability is still no. 1, at least with guys I shoot with.
    I am sure no one stated that 3 gun AR's needed to be accurate FIRST and reliable second. When you match fit a bunch of stuff (read overly tight), use rifle length gas systems with less mass bolt carriers, odd spring and buffer combos, and drop in single stage trigger with under 2LBS triggers you kind of get what you get.

    Is everyone doing the above? No, I don't think so, but I have been around enough gun game AR's two know that there is some silly stuff out there.



    C4

  5. #35
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    My 3G rifle is my combat rifle. Combat rifle is priority. Everything else is secondary.

    -Jax


    "Despite what your mamma told you, violence does solve problems."
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    "Elite" designations come from the things that you DO in life, and not from the things that you buy along the way. AC

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I am sure no one stated that 3 gun AR's needed to be accurate FIRST and reliable second. When you match fit a bunch of stuff (read overly tight), use rifle length gas systems with less mass bolt carriers, odd spring and buffer combos, and drop in single stage trigger with under 2LBS triggers you kind of get what you get.

    Is everyone doing the above? No, I don't think so, but I have been around enough gun game AR's two know that there is some silly stuff out there.



    C4
    I'm not exactly sure of parts fitment that are tight other than tight chambers from sketchy barrel manufacturers. Even the high end BCGs used in comp don't seem any tighter than stock ones, just lighter (going after the lightness/low recoil angle, which is fine). I wish I could afford a Ti bolt carrier to try. Where I have seen a reliability issue in comp guns is with the use of adjustable gas blocks, chasing the lowest possible recoil. Also, substandard triggers, doubling and failing to reset.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I have two STI 2011's that were rejected by Delta for combat duty because they were not reliable enough.

    Just sayin...



    C4
    I could've told them that! It's the magazines. STI built their 2011s from the ground-up and had the opportunity to really do something great, but NO. They redesigned the biggest POS part of the 1911 into an even bigger, almost unbelievable POS.

    That being said, there are a lot of persistent, mechanically inclined guys out there who can make 'em work, and work well.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I am sure no one stated that 3 gun AR's needed to be accurate FIRST and reliable second. When you match fit a bunch of stuff (read overly tight), use rifle length gas systems with less mass bolt carriers, odd spring and buffer combos, and drop in single stage trigger with under 2LBS triggers you kind of get what you get.

    Is everyone doing the above? No, I don't think so, but I have been around enough gun game AR's two know that there is some silly stuff out there.
    C4
    Think this sums up some of the types of things we see in gamer guns lol. BTW they even have a titanium carrier coming out to reduce even more weight. Same swiss cheese design. Would be the perfect match for a hydraulic buffer

    From TOS ... "buy the shit out of that thing, all the mil spec is just nonsense."

  9. #39
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    I don't think some of you guys understand competitive shooting very well. There are no mid to top level competitors out there that have guns that are unreliable. Matches are won and lost in seconds, so reliability is a must. 3gun for example for the most part uses around a 4 moa rule for long range targets. That is for two reasons one is for speed and the other is for the equipment (optics vs irons) being used. That is not to say there are not half or one minute rifles being used but they are not required. The moral of the story is just like in real life reliability is number 1.

    Matt

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by samuse View Post
    I could've told them that! It's the magazines. STI built their 2011s from the ground-up and had the opportunity to really do something great, but NO. They redesigned the biggest POS part of the 1911 into an even bigger, almost unbelievable POS.

    That being said, there are a lot of persistent, mechanically inclined guys out there who can make 'em work, and work well.
    I would agree. The pistol it self seems to be fine (with the exception of the adjustable rear sight, too fragile for combat??). But the magazines always seem to need to be tuned by the mag specialist before they are even remotely considered for comp.

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