Aimpoint PRO vs. T1/H1/R1, or ACOG for a SHTF optic?

[Doc Safari]

Those of you who have or continue to use both, which do you prefer?

I've had an Aimpoint T1 in my prepper stash for a couple of years. I zeroed it and put it away for SHTF on my "do not open until doomsday" carbine.

Last summer, I got an Aimpoint R1 from Grant that I've been using for every day. Lately I've been thinking that I need another spare optic for my prepper stash, and I've thought of either buying a T1 or H1 to put away, or maybe I'll get an Aimpoint PRO and put away the R1, since the R1 is "proven."

Which direction would you opt for?

I already know the T1/R1/H1 is lightweight and just about bomb-proof.

I'm thinking that if I get an Aimpoint PRO due to the lower price it would become my "every day use" optic, leaving the micros for the Zombie Apocalypse.

But, is there a reason to prefer the PRO over the T1/H1/R1 series?

Would it be better to have my T1 and a PRO in my SHTF stash instead of a T1 and and R1?

I like the "plug and play" aspect of the PRO, and of course the lower price. I'd have to buy a T1/H1 and add a mount, I/O cover, and of course the price is usually roughly $200 more.

Which way would you go?

Or would you go for broke and buy, say, a TA33 ACOG as a SHTF optic?

Since this is more of a "personal preference" thread, I'd love to know why you prefer one choice over another, even if it's something as simple as "X is too heavy" or something.

[SomeOtherGuy]

How soon is S going to HTF? The Aimpoint batteries will be spent in 3-5 years if left on, maybe 7-10 at most if turned off. The ACOG's tritium will be good for 8-10 years, OK but dimming for another 4-6 after that, and then dark. Aimpoint batteries are cheap to replace now, tritium is not user-replaceable and quite expensive to have Trijicon do it. My personal choice is a high quality, rugged conventional optic with a good reticle that is useable even without illumination. Simple duplex reticles in the second focal plane are just fine, as is SWFA's FFP donut, and some other options. A lifetime warranty is nice too in case S never HTF's but you want to use the scope more conventionally in 10 or 20 years. So my take is a SWFA SS or Burris XTR (gen 1 or 2) in the under $1k price range, or maybe even a Leupold or Vortex PST, and any of the severely rugged quality options in the over $1k price range (Steiner Military, S&B, Vortex Razor, Leupold Mark 6, etc.).

[Failure2Stop]

Either T1 or a good low-powered variable.

[Doc Safari]

All right...I'll play along.

Suppose I opted for a 1-4 variable as suggested. Do I need to spend the bucks to get an ACOG TR series or is there one adequately rugged for the world ending in the price range of an Aimpoint PRO?

For example:

http://swfa.com/Leupold-15-4x20-Mark...pe-P60890.aspx

[Jippo]

How soon is S going to HTF? The Aimpoint batteries will be spent in 3-5 years if left on, maybe 7-10 at most if turned off. The ACOG's tritium will be good for 8-10 years, OK but dimming for another 4-6 after that, and then dark. Aimpoint batteries are cheap to replace now, tritium is not user-replaceable and quite expensive to have Trijicon do it. My personal choice is a high quality, rugged conventional optic with a good reticle that is useable even without illumination. Simple duplex reticles in the second focal plane are just fine, as is SWFA's FFP donut, and some other options. A lifetime warranty is nice too in case S never HTF's but you want to use the scope more conventionally in 10 or 20 years. So my take is a SWFA SS or Burris XTR (gen 1 or 2) in the under $1k price range, or maybe even a Leupold or Vortex PST, and any of the severely rugged quality options in the over $1k price range (Steiner Military, S&B, Vortex Razor, Leupold Mark 6, etc.).

ACOG will not just drop dead. Tritium will eventually diminish but it won't be a sudden drop. I just recently sold a TA11 which was made in 1999 an was still fully operational. Tritium will half it's brightness every 12 years, meaning that it'll drop down to 1/2 brightness in 12 years, 1/4 brightness in 24 years, 1/8 brightness in 36 years, etc, etc. The scope will be mechanically busted if it is in use before the tritium goes out. Also, worth considering is the fact that the with the fibre optical modes the tritium is only used in the most darkest of conditions, because the fiber will collect light even in low light conditions.

Added to that ACOG has etched reticle, which will work even if the fiber or the tritium areout for a reason or another.

[Eurodriver]

Those of you who have or continue to use both, which do you prefer?

Or would you go for broke and buy, say, a TA33 ACOG as a SHTF optic?

Since this is more of a "personal preference" thread, I'd love to know why you prefer one choice over another, even if it's something as simple as "X is too heavy" or something.

My thoughts:

For a long time I decided what my "SHTF"/"Go-To"/TEOTWAWKI rifle would be. I trained with different optics, barrel lengths, suppressed vs. unsuppressed. This was an ongoing process that continues to change to this day based on my training levels and living environment. I really don't think one person (or a million) can come into this thread and tell you what is going to work for you and you'll be able to say "Yep, that's what I'm going with!" without lying to yourself. Sure, a bunch of people will post pics of cool looking rifles (I'm about to do that in a sec) and tell you how awesome/badass it is for them, but what works for me in my environment with my training levels will not work for you in your environment with your training levels. Fighting in the suburbs is immensely different from fighting in the mountains. While asking for advice is always good, do be reminded that only getting out and firing the weapon (in as a dynamic environment as you can achieve) is going to give you the knowledge necessary to make a good decision.

[Doc Safari]

My thoughts:

For a long time I decided what my "SHTF"/"Go-To"/TEOTWAWKI rifle would be. I trained with different optics, barrel lengths, suppressed vs. unsuppressed. This was an ongoing process that continues to change to this day based on my training levels and living environment. I really don't think one person (or a million) can come into this thread and tell you what is going to work for you and you'll be able to say "Yep, that's what I'm going with!" without lying to yourself. Sure, a bunch of people will post pics of cool looking rifles (I'm about to do that in a sec) and tell you how awesome/badass it is for them, but what works for me in my environment with my training levels will not work for you in your environment with your training levels. Fighting in the suburbs is immensely different from fighting in the mountains. While asking for advice is always good, do be reminded that only getting out and firing the weapon (in as a dynamic environment as you can achieve) is going to give you the knowledge necessary to make a good decision.

Great post, and "buying too much optic" is always foremost on my mind.

I switched from AK's and battle rifles to AR's a few years ago almost solely due to the weight of other platforms compared to the M4 and its accoutrements. While hiking in the desert one day, I literally thought seriously about leaving the rifle, mag vest, and ammo on a tree while I hiked back to the house with my water. The plan was to go back after sundown in a vehicle and retrieve the heavy stuff. Really. That, and the fact that the AR is more "politically correct" in some local circles made me switch to the M4.

So, in keeping with the "tactical reality" of my situation and not in fantasyland, I should do one of the following:

1. Buy an Aimpoint H1 due to the light weight and the fact I've already got a spare mount for it, and the experience to use it. The Aimpoint PRO is somewhat heavier.

or

2. Buy an Aimpoint Pro due to the low price and the "plug and play" aspect (i.e., comes with its own mount, lense caps, etc.). In my tactical situation, my girlfriend is keeping my money pretty tight, so the H1 or T1 would be more expensive and require me to buy another I/O cover.

It's going to come down to how much money I can spend versus how much extra weight do I want an optic to add to the weapon. (Given that both products are quality and therefore equal in all other respects IMHO).

I doubt I'd be in a position to need NVD capability (and I do have one Aimpoint T1 stashed away).

It's nice to covet a 1-4 variable optic because I DO live in the vast open desert, but the price of a decent one means mega bucks with the optic and mount factored in. Add to that the realization that in a true SHTF situation I'm unlikely to engage targets at a distance because I'd be more inclined to save ammo and "live to fight another day." A Trijicon TR 1-4 variable seems like a pipe dream in this context.

So, ACOG or 1-4 variable seems to not be a choice for me. I had liked the idea of an optic that doesn't need batteries, but, hey, if an Aimpoint's power supply lasts 3 or 5 years depending on flavor, that might be more than enough for a person caught in a SHTF situation that might not live another 3 or 5 years.

You've sort of solidified my original reasoning.

[GH41]

I love these SHTF scenarios no person can plan for. One of everything is great for defending your position but a haul ass gun is different IMHO. If the shit ever does hit the fan and I have the luxury of leaving with a rifle I want it as light as possible. It won't have an RDS or other optics. Batteries don't wear out on iron sights! GH

[Doc Safari]

I love these SHTF scenarios no person can plan for. One of everything is great for defending your position but a haul ass gun is different IMHO. If the shit ever does hit the fan and I have the luxury of leaving with a rifle I want it as light as possible. It won't have an RDS or other optics. Batteries don't wear out on iron sights! GH

True, but another tactical reality is that civilian shooters often turn to optics to compensate for age-related inability to focus on iron sights anymore.

Luckily I don't have that problem yet, but if the SHTF happens ten years from now...

[l8apex]

It's nice to covet a 1-4 variable optic because I DO live in the vast open desert, but the price of a decent one means mega bucks with the optic and mount factored in.

You've answered your question here regarding a LPVO [low power variable optic] or ACOG . VAST OPEN = glass that will help you PID anything that you deem a threat or food. And if it's food, you'll want to make sure not to taint the meat with a bad shot. There are many affordable options that are 1-4 or used COGs on the EE. Ultimately you'll have to make that decision, however for me where I'm about 50/50 urban vs. rural variable [Leupy 1.25-4 edges out my T1]. Currently have another variable incoming to replace the T1 on the other rifle. My observations with the T-1 in rural areas is that I was always reaching for binos to PID at intermediate ranges 75-250. That lasted two trips till the variable got the nod. YMMV.