Russian Primer .223 Test

[jstone]

Good call on the RCBS universal tool. I just picked one up today and although I don't have a ton of rounds through it yet, I noticed the difference immediately. My Lee is getting mothballed.

Thanks

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I have never used the lee but I know the rcbs universal is damn good. Its good to hear you like it as well Ryno12. If the lee is as bad or worse than the old rcbs I know how you feel.

It is a good feeling to see your primers being seated so consistently and easy. One after another. I used to have to check every primer to see if it was seated right. Once I got the new tool it took a couple loading sessions for me to not constantly check the primers.

[Ryno12]

I think the texture of the Lee tray flips the primers better than the RCBS and I'm also not sure if I like how the cover is fastened to the tray from the center on the RCBS. It'll take some getting used to. The real issue of actually seating the primers, the RCBS is heads and shoulders above the Lee.
If I could only combine both their positive attributes, I'd have one hell of a hand primer.
(I'm gonna leave them alone together overnight and see what happens.)


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[jstone]

If you can find a round tray from the original it is much better. It still has the center attachment, but I like it better than the square tray. I still use the square tray if I want to put over 200 primers in it.

[Ryno12]

They also had the other hand primer that uses a shell holder. The tray on that one was round. Is that the one you mean or is there a third, older style?

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[jstone]

Thats the one. If you call rcbs they should be able to send you one. They probably wont even charge you. Just tell them your looking for the round one that goes with the old model.

[Ryno12]

Will do. Thanks for the tip.

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[taliv]

ok, i put barrel #6 on my match rifle and started working up loads



I'm testing RP brass compared to my old Lapua. I'm also testing Wolf primers (compared to my old Fed GMM 210Ms).

All brass is 243win necked up and then fireformed to 260AI.
All loads are 44.36g R17 on the nuggets (using acculab scale)
All bullets are 140g Berger Hybrids
All groups are 5 rounds.
All units are feet per sec
All measurements taken with magnetospeed chrony

#1*
Lapua Brass, Wolf primers
AVG 3046 fps
SD 11
ES 31

#2*
Lapua brass, Wolf primers
AVG 3045
SD 7
ES 19

#3
RP brass, Wolf Primer
AVG 2979
SD 6
ES 16

#4
RP brass, GM210M primer
AVG 2985
SD 6
ES 19


Summary:
While this sample size is pretty dang small, so I'd hesitate to draw too many conclusions, I'm reasonably confident in the following:

Lapua brass shoots a good bit faster (65 fps) than RP brass (in this load/gun)

With 6 fps difference in the averages, identical SD , and 3 fps difference in the ES, I'd say there's no statistical difference in velocity between wolf and GM210M primers (edit, yeah i know there's technically a statistically significant difference, but i mean practically, 6 fps is not going to make a difference on a target inside the effective range of this cartridge)

-------
This same lapua brass had previously resulted in several 5-round groups with SD of 1 and ES of 4-6 fps. But that was with different barrel/reamer, and much different neck tension and seating depth. And this lapua brass had previously been fired in a different chamber made by a different reamer. So I'm hopeful that I can improve these numbers quite a bit.

*the difference in the two lapua loads is this http://www.rwhart.com/store/proddeta...dhb-f-swage-lg
Several barrels ago, I fired the lapua brass once, and it stretched the primer pocket out so that a GM210M falls right out. (i.e. if you turn it upside down, it falls out) I bought this tool last week to attempt to salvage this brass. After attempting to use this on Lapua, Hornady and Win brass with no success (GM210M still falls out) I gave up. Fortunately, the larger wolf primers seat firmly and won't fall out. But I decided to try 5 that I'd used the tool on, just to see if it made a difference, because some of the reviews I'd read said it had affected accuracy.
After this firing, wolf primers still seat

[markm]

These are the LARGE RIFLE Wolf? That's interesting. I've never been able to try those. I tested WLR (win large rifle) against 210Ms for my .308 and they had the same Velocity and S.D. 210Ms are kinda hard to find here lately.

[Ryno12]

I've been sitting 1k of the large Wolfs that I've been wanting to test in my 308. This'll light a fire under my ass.

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[taliv]

markm, yep. large rifle wolf.

testing continued this morning. The Lapuas aren't working out so I guess i'm going to put them back on the shelf. I increased the charge on the RP / Wolf combo from 44.36 to 44.80 and velocity increased to 2997 AVG (my target is a hair over 3000 fps). (SD 6, ES 15). I also seated them 15 thou deeper and that resulted in a significant improvement in accuracy. They are cloverleafing now where previously they were maybe .8 MOA.

Heading out again now to test another 2 thou deeper depth and 44.92g charge. If they shoot, I'm calling it done.