"Stopping Power" article

[200RNL]

S&M, Michael Courtney,.....etc have all tried with extreme dedication and heavy exaggeration to try to show some sort of effects exist in handgun incapacitation other than permanent cavity to no avail. As long as people still shoot jugs of water, clay, gel, and fruit......there is always going to be the temptation to make such assumptions.

The search for the elusive force that produces 'Stopping Power' has been going on for over 100 years. After examining the data from tests using all of the modern instruments available, that elusive force continues to hide from us.

It is my opinion that a reasonably sized hunk of lead, producing 150 - 300 ft lbs that can reliably produce full penetration while breaking some bones along the way, seems to work most of the time on the human species. No one else has to accept that conclusion but it brings inner peace to me.

[AndrewWiggin]

I originally didn't admit to being the author of the article because I think that sometimes people hold back their criticism a bit if they know the person they are speaking about might read their post. Thank you for the honest assessment. I didn't intend to imply that a person SHOULD choose 10mm or .357 mag over the common service calibers. I was just musing about a personal speculation. I agree that 9mm is probably the best choice for most departments and individuals for personal protection. My own EDC is a G23 because I bought a G27, G23, and G22 years ago when I believed that .40 S&W hit harder than 9mm. I was pretty well invested in ammo, mags, and pistols before I began to learn better. While there are differences in the permanent cavity produced by the service calibers, the differences are not tremendous. Now, though, .40 S&W serves my needs well enough and there are some minor terminal advantages, especially in barrier performance. It doesn't hurt that I can use the same projectiles and dies and some of the same powders as 10mm. I see 10mm and .357 mag as extremely versatile cartridges that can be very useful for defense against humans as well as large animals or for hunting.

[Symmetry]

I originally didn't admit to being the author of the article because I think that sometimes people hold back their criticism a bit if they know the person they are speaking about might read their post. Thank you for the honest assessment. I didn't intend to imply that a person SHOULD choose 10mm or .357 mag over the common service calibers. I was just musing about a personal speculation. I agree that 9mm is probably the best choice for most departments and individuals for personal protection. My own EDC is a G23 because I bought a G27, G23, and G22 years ago when I believed that .40 S&W hit harder than 9mm. I was pretty well invested in ammo, mags, and pistols before I began to learn better. While there are differences in the permanent cavity produced by the service calibers, the differences are not tremendous. Now, though, .40 S&W serves my needs well enough and there are some minor terminal advantages, especially in barrier performance. It doesn't hurt that I can use the same projectiles and dies and some of the same powders as 10mm. I see 10mm and .357 mag as extremely versatile cartridges that can be very useful for defense against humans as well as large animals or for hunting.

The .40 and 10mm certainly make a larger hole than 9mm, and the reduced ogive will aid in damage in the first 1-2" of penetration. So technically they are more effective than 9mm. The .40 does make for a nice compromise between large holes and magazine capacity, but I have found two problems with it that bug me as a shooter. I've never had a .40 pistol last half as long as a 9mm equivalent. Rail wear on our .40 Sigs and tolerances opening up from the increased parts wear degrade our Sig's accuracy over time, and we have seen increased parts breakage. Combine that with reduced shooter accuracy during multiple shot, dynamic targets and it's hard to justify the caliber's use for many. When it comes to reloading, the .40 can be finicky with powder selection in heavier bullet weights(especially JHP) since the increased pressures warp the bullet to the point of causing keyholing(been there done that). By comparison the 9mm and .45acp are a breeze to reload for in many different bullet weights/lengths, with a wide variety of powders, while still achieving high levels of accuracy. The .40 makes a lot of sense on paper, but in shooting performance and long term service it has its drawbacks.

[AndrewWiggin]

I wouldn't recommend it for new shooters but I'm sort of stuck with it in a way. I certainly could divest myself of the .40 S&W ammo, mags and guns and then buy 9mm equivalents but the used price for .40 S&W Glocks is extremely low from all the police trade ins. I may do it someday but it's pretty low priority to me.

[Symmetry]

I wouldn't recommend it for new shooters but I'm sort of stuck with it in a way. I certainly could divest myself of the .40 S&W ammo, mags and guns and then buy 9mm equivalents but the used price for .40 S&W Glocks is extremely low from all the police trade ins. I may do it someday but it's pretty low priority to me.

When I used .40, I made it work. In a P229 recoil is very comfortable in 180gr, and was easier to manage than our .45acp Sigs. Maintenance was more intense, and cleaning more often with lots of grease on the rubbing parts. The .40 Sigs are more durable than the .45 Sigs, but the .45s are more accurate. Currenty I prefer 9mm Sigs for duty use, but there is a rumor that my agency wants to authorize only .40 & .45 in the near future, so the .40 would be my second choice.

[Flankenstein]

I'm a fan of stopping power and banana clips. I embrace the bullshit! Trying to defeat the stupidity is only going to lead to frustration.

LOL...

[AndrewWiggin]

When I used .40, I made it work. In a P229 recoil is very comfortable in 180gr, and was easier to manage than our .45acp Sigs. Maintenance was more intense, and cleaning more often with lots of grease on the rubbing parts. The .40 Sigs are more durable than the .45 Sigs, but the .45s are more accurate. Currenty I prefer 9mm Sigs for duty use, but there is a rumor that my agency wants to authorize only .40 & .45 in the near future, so the .40 would be my second choice.

I carry a Glock so I don't have to worry about parts wearing out before it explodes.