Glock reliability

[Jay Cunningham]

General Warning -

Do not let ths thread become like the last "Glock reliability" thread.

~ Thekatar

[ToddG]

Todd, the implication you made about the ICE/DHS tests was that they were the most recent and Glock "failed", which leaves the distinctly negative impression. You don't have the results of those tests to post here, do you? There have been tests that HK, Beretta and Sig have all failed as well. Nobody has a perfect record.

Federale, again it seems like we're talking past each other here. Obviously there have been plenty of tests and different winners. Hell, the 96D Brigadier won the old INS test, INS even produced a video about how detailed their testing had been and how great the gun had performed. A few years later they hated it, guns were breaking by 10,000 rounds, etc.

Glock "failed" the DHS test to the obvious extent that they were not given a contract in a multiple contract award environment. SIG and HK got awards.

As I am sure you are WELL aware, departments HAVE put things into their specifications that pretty much steer themselves to specific pistols and exclude others, so I'm not sure why you're stuck on this. And those specifications also have a lot to do why certain brands do well in certain tests and don't do well in others.

Absolutely. Dude, for eight years it was my job to help agencies do exactly that (if they wanted to buy my employers' wares) or fight against it (if they wanted to buy something else).

However, I believe it's a mistake for anyone to believe there was a brand target with the ICE test. There were some very pro-HK people involved in writing the SOW, but in the end their procurement and management people parsed things down to a very scientific and fair test. Changes were made to the original draft SOW specifically to allow (some believed give a preference to) Glock. It's not like Glock was being shut out.

And as I'm sure you're also aware, there are many people in decision making positions that really just do not like the Glock (in particular). There are trainers who don't particularly like them either. Do you know any?

Sure, and the reverse is true, too. I can name you two large (+/- 3,000 agent) fed agencies which selected Glocks against the recommendation of their firearms training staff because the admin exec at the top of the food chain wanted Glocks. That happens all the time to every company. I can also name you at least two agencies (similar size or larger) that refuse to consider the Glock because of the takedown procedure. Personal preferences play a huge role in these things no matter how "fair & open" they try to be.

I'll use the example of a mag disconnect. There are many people who think a mag disconnect is a bad idea. There are some who think it is a great idea. Depending on who is driving a procurement, that feature could be forbidden or required. Neither is the "right" decision, but still the decision has to be made.

Somewhere in this thread you've apparently gotten the idea that people are saying that Glocks have mythical reliability. Nobody has said that. What many have said is that they're as good of a choice as any for someone looking for a pistol that will be reliable out of the box.

Your interpretation of what certain people have said is different than mine, then. I agree completely that Glocks are probably about as reliable as most of the other major pistol brands on the market today.

This was an exceedingly rare phenomenon. And yet Glock showed up and milled the slides on every last one of the pistols anyway. I would not "look to the NYPD" as an example of the Glock being unreliable.

You think Glock spent all that money to fix a non-existent problem, especially after previous attempts to solve the same problem failed?

There are certainly guys at Rodman's Neck who've seen the problem, I've spoken to them personally. I also owned a G19 from that same time period that experienced the same problem more than 20 times in 6,000 rounds, and when I called Glock about it they knew exactly what I was talking about and recommended a variety of possible solutions (this was before Glock came up with the CNC machining solution). I handled at least two other G19's owned by private citizens in that same year suffering the same problem ... I know because I replaced their extractors per instructions I received directly from Glock.

And while we're on the topic, I spoke with an agent yesterday over lunch. His agency is in the planning stage to replace every G19 in inventory because they're having so many failures, including catastrophic breakages. They're old guns and it's not surprising that they need replacing, unless you're the kind of person who believes that a G19 will last forever and work flawlessly until the end of time. But the problem is so significant that the guy I was talking to, former SRT and FI, decided not to switch to one even though he'd rather carry a 9mm (and the G19 is the only authorized 9mm for that agency).