9mm Carry Ammo: Federal HST vs. Speer Gold-Dot vs. Underwood Gold-Dot

**Badger89** · 03-24-14, 04:28

I've been searching for a replacement 9mm carry load and my research thus far has brought me to these three contenders: Federal HST, Speer Gold-Dot, and Underwood Ammo Gold-Dot loads. Before coming across the Underwood ammo, I had narrowed my search to either the Speer Gold-Dot 124 grain +P or the Federal HST 147 grain, and was content to purchase a decent quantity of whichever showed up in stock first. However, the numbers on the Underwood ammo look very promising, and now I'm very seriously considering the Underwood 147 grain +P+ Gold-Dot loads. Unfortunately they seem to penetrate slightly less than either the Speer 124 grain +P Gold-Dots or the Federal 147 grain HSTs, but the expansion is phenomenal for a 9mm round. The Underwood 124 grain +P+ Gold-Dots seem to perform very well also, matching the penetration of the Speer and Federal loads with greater expansion than both, but with slightly less expansion than the Underwood 147 grain +P+ Gold-Dots.

I would like to discuss the merits and potential drawbacks of the loads listed below. Let's try to keep this civil and not turn into Speer worship fest... Yes, I understand they are the benchmark, the standby, the proven load by which all others seem to be measured. With that in mind I think the other loadings stack up very nicely in comparison, so let's keep this discussion objective and fact based please. Also, I am aware of the potential safety issues with +P+ ammunition. I only carry Glocks with factory barrels so that is not an issue.

Of the loads listed below, which would (or do) you carry, and why?

Federal HST 9mm Luger 124 grain

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1150 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 364 ft/lbs

Federal HST 9mm Luger 124 grain +P

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 396 ft/lbs

Speer 9mm Luger 124 grain

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1150 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 364 ft/lbs

Speer 9mm Luger 124 grain +P

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1220 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 410 ft/lbs

Video Link: 4 Layer Denim Test (by tnoutdoors9)
Penetration: 13.25"
Expansion: 0.614" average, 0.650" maximum
Retained Weight: 123.9 grains

Underwood 9mm Luger 124 grain +P

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1225 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 413 ft/lbs

Underwood 9mm Luger 124 grain +P+

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 465 ft/lbs

Video Link: 4 Layer Denim Test (by tnoutdoors9)
Penetration: 13.25"
Expansion: 0.703" average, 0.726" maximum
Retained Weight: 123.6 grains

Federal HST 9mm Luger 147 grain

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1000 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 326 ft/lbs

Video Link: 4 Layer Denim Test (by tnoutdoors9)
Penetration: 13.25"
Expansion: 0.664" average, 0.667" maximum
Retained Weight: 147.9 grains

Federal HST 9mm Luger 147 grain +P

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1050 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 360 ft/lbs

Video Link: 4 Layer Denim Test (by tnoutdoors9)
Penetration: 11.25"
Expansion: 0.700" average, 0.713" maximum
Retained Weight: 148.4 grains

Speer 9mm Luger 147 grain

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 985 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 317 ft/lbs

Video Link: 4 Layer Denim Test (by tnoutdoors9)
Penetration: 14.25"
Expansion: 0.582" average, 0.587" maximum
Retained Weight: 146.0 grains

Underwood 9mm Luger 147 grain +P

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1125 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 414 ft/lbs

Underwood 9mm Luger 147 grain +P+

Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 1175 fps
Advertised Muzzle Energy: 451 ft/lbs

Video Link: 4 Layer Denim Test (by tnoutdoors9)
Penetration: 12.75"
Expansion: 0.791" average, 0.814" maximum
Retained Weight: 145.4 grains

**vicious_cb** · 03-24-14, 04:36

Why choose some small ammo company with potentially dangerous pressures over 2 proven companies with LE contracts? I have carried both 147gr HST and 124gr +P and would not hesitate to carry either though I prefer the 147gr HST over the Gold Dot by a very small margin.

**PLCedeno** · 03-24-14, 06:29

Originally Posted by vicious_cb

Why choose some small ammo company with potentially dangerous pressures over 2 proven companies with LE contracts? I have carried both 147gr HST and 124gr +P and would not hesitate to carry either though I prefer the 147gr HST over the Gold Dot by a very small margin.

This. I will add that having fired both from Glock 26, 19 and 17 the HST is more manageable for me. There performance seems to be on par based on all of the data seen on M4C.

**whick1** · 04-06-14, 06:45

To me what little bit extra you get with the Underwood +p+ it is not worth the added pressure that it creates which will result in more wear on your gun and more recoil. I personally prefer the 124 gr Gold Dot in 9mm. The HSt is a good load as well but does not seem to have as much penetration as other quality loads.

**BufordTJustice** · 04-06-14, 10:47

Originally Posted by whick1

To me what little bit extra you get with the Underwood +p+ it is not worth the added pressure that it creates which will result in more wear on your gun and more recoil. I personally prefer the 124 gr Gold Dot in 9mm. The HSt is a good load as well but does not seem to have as much penetration as other quality loads.

No.

The g27 or g23, for example use slides that are lighter than their 9mm counterparts....and they use the same recoil spring assemblies. Yet 40s&w is a much more violent cartridge than any +p+ loading from Underwood.

My agency issues +p duty ammo and trains with +p ammo as well (Speer lawman). After countless thousand of rounds, no additional "wear" has been seen. We have Glock 21's with more than 20k rounds that still will ring a gong at 100 yards while standing. Just more frequent RSA replacement....about every 3k to 4k rounds.

Underwood doesn't flatten the primer any more than the std gold dot loads...and not nearly as much as, say, buffalo bore ammo....which is super hot.

Also, HST meets FBI protocol for penetration depth and performs nearly as well as a bonded round through laminated auto glass.

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**whick1** · 04-09-14, 07:38

Originally Posted by BufordTJustice

No.

The g27 or g23, for example use slides that are lighter than their 9mm counterparts....and they use the same recoil spring assemblies. Yet 40s&w is a much more violent cartridge than any +p+ loading from Underwood.

My agency issues +p duty ammo and trains with +p ammo as well (Speer lawman). After countless thousand of rounds, no additional "wear" has been seen. We have Glock 21's with more than 20k rounds that still will ring a gong at 100 yards while standing. Just more frequent RSA replacement....about every 3k to 4k rounds.

Underwood doesn't flatten the primer any more than the std gold dot loads...and not nearly as much as, say, buffalo bore ammo....which is super hot.

Also, HST meets FBI protocol for penetration depth and performs nearly as well as a bonded round through laminated auto glass.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Yes.
Higher pressure rounds will cause accelerated parts wear quicker that lower pressure rounds. And while you are right the Glock 40s will wear out before a 9mm but that same 9mm will wear out quicker when shooting +p+ than shooting normal SAAMI pressure rounds or even +p. I am not sure the exact numbers of rounds quicker but it will wear out quicker.

As far as the HST is concerned it is a great rd and does meet FBI protocol but from my informal testing and some results I have seen from our dept as well as a couple other local depts it did not penetrate as well as Gold Dots or Bonded Ranger due to these tests our dept as well as a couple others went away from the HST. Would I feel outgunned or be concerned with HST NO I would most definitely not but given the choice our dept went with a different round.

**BufordTJustice** · 04-09-14, 08:55

Still no.

We have G22s with tens of thousands of rounds an NO "quicker wear" and .40 S&W is a much more violent round than ANY 9mm (+P+ or not, you're simply limited by bullet weight and case volume), especially the old 165gr and (current) 180gr Speer Gold Dots (and Lawman) that we currently use. They have less slide mass than a 9mm and the same RSA, yet you do not seem concerned about basically every .40 S&W handgun extant. To use Underwood +P+ is to apply less overall wear than one of the most common duty handguns (G22/G23) experiences EVERY TIME IT IS FIRED. There is no more primer flattening and nearly identical ejection distance and pattern for the Und 147gr +P+ as compared to a 124gr +P Gold dot from a gen3 G26, gen4 G26, gen3 G19, gen4 G19, gen3 G17, and gen4 G17.

Whick, if you're "worried" about wear, you've unknowingly indicted the longevity and reliability of nearly EVERY .40 S&W handgun in duty use today. I don't see any factual information that a) negates my personal experience or b) shows that the Underwood exposes a handgun to any "undue" wear.

You say that higher pressure rounds will cause more parts wear, so how long will a G22 last (since it is clearly worse off than any 9mm)? I've seen two G22s at my agency that have over 40k rounds and are only on their 5th RSA each. I think you're trying to gild the lily here. How many folks even put 10k rounds through their pistol? Not many. So I think the concern for additional wear is academic at this point.

If we were talking about Buffalo Bore or Double Tap (Which have both shown pressure signs in my guns), then it would be a different story. Also to mitigate wear and recoil, I use a Wolff 22lb recoil spring set with their blackened stainless in my G26. The 147gr Undywood feel softer than Speer 124gr +P with the stock RSA. Problem solved for under $40.

The HST, when shot into calibrated bal gel, has shown to be almost identical to Gold Dots in my agency's testing (using full FBI protocols and proper gel mixture). It penetrated slightly less in bare gel and Denim covered blocks because it expanded more, but the difference in pen depth was not stark. My agency wen with Gold Dots because we get them a lot cheaper for whatever reason and they are actually "bonded" (and this gave warm fuzzies to the CoC).

Folks, use the Underwood 147gr +P+ if you want. Excellent performance (and the best hog round in 9mm).

Originally Posted by whick1

Yes.
Higher pressure rounds will cause accelerated parts wear quicker that lower pressure rounds. And while you are right the Glock 40s will wear out before a 9mm but that same 9mm will wear out quicker when shooting +p+ than shooting normal SAAMI pressure rounds or even +p. I am not sure the exact numbers of rounds quicker but it will wear out quicker.

As far as the HST is concerned it is a great rd and does meet FBI protocol but from my informal testing and some results I have seen from our dept as well as a couple other local depts it did not penetrate as well as Gold Dots or Bonded Ranger due to these tests our dept as well as a couple others went away from the HST. Would I feel outgunned or be concerned with HST NO I would most definitely not but given the choice our dept went with a different round.

**bzdog** · 03-24-14, 08:30

Both HST and Gold Dot are on Dr. Roberts recommended list, so ether is fine. Personally I'd stick with the OEM brands and skip the boutique stuff. There is no real benefit at potential downsides.

I would (and have) be totally comfortable carrying either one although if I have my choice lean a bit towards 147gr HST.

-john