ATF clarification about shoulder use of an AR pistol

[ABNAK]

The SB-15 was designed for people with physical handicaps. Instead people use them to make wanna-be SBR's. About the same as an able bodied person parking in a handicap spot & limping into the store in my mind.

You've got to be freakin' kidding me! Talk about a stretch.......

Know what I think? I think [some] people who've jumped through the NFA hoops are pissed that someone can have almost the same damn thing as their SBR but without the year + wait, $200 stamp, engraved lower, permission slip for out-of-state transport, yada yada. Kind of a child-like stomping of the feet and crying "I had to do it! You should too!"

[RHINOWSO]

I can see the use for these for legal reasons and have considered getting one, even owning SBRs.

Of you think it's idiotic, I think you're an idiot!

Just a small look into what you'd hear if they ever got rid of the Hughes amendment. There would be people crying like babies over spending $15K, $25k, and much more for transferable MGs.

[Leaveammoforme]

I can see the use for these for legal reasons and have considered getting one, even owning SBRs.

Of you think it's idiotic, I think you're an idiot!

You're entitled to think that and express it the multiple times that you have. As am I entitled to think an able bodied person that uses a SB-15 makes them 'That Guy'

[SeriousStudent]

Please desist with the hair-pulling and eye-gouging.

Constructive comments are still welcome.

[Endur]

You're entitled to think that and express it the multiple times that you have. As am I entitled to think an able bodied person that uses a SB-15 makes them 'That Guy'

I don't think anyone was disputing the fact that those things are hideous, they just had issues with your comparison. I myself, agree, they are down right "that guy" status.

[Iraqgunz]

Can you please explain this in detail?

Good stuff, sig SB-15 isn't a replacement for SBR, but the fact you can put it on a an AR PISTOL is useful. Here in FL that allows you to throw an SB-15 equipped AR pistol with law tactical folding adapter into a bag like the 5.11 sling bag and have the ability to conceal carry it... You cannot legally do that with an SBR.

[VIP3R 237]

Can you please explain this in detail?

If its anything like Utah then rifles are not allowed to be legally concealed with a cfp, but pistols are.

[hickuleas]

The Pistol brace is causing lots debate but to cause this type of division is sad. Simple enough don't buy one if your heart just isn't into it. One of the advantages is the legality of being a pistol and as such allowed to concealed carry in many states. I was humored when Sig released these but after using them i see why they sell so many. People with stamps hate them others love them isn't hard to figure that one.

[Bullz]

This is what I was trying to address with my other posts. To start with the obvious, laws pertaining to NFA items vary state by state and are far more complicated than non NFA items. There are states that outright ban suppressors and/or SBRs. Others have transportation and use restrictions. I'm not going to list all the intricacies as the above will be enough to help illustrate the point.

Ignorance is no excuse from the law and every individual needs to understand the limits of the statues of a specific state. However, in many states a license to carry a concealed weapon limits that concealed weapon to a handgun specifically; a pistol being acceptable. Some states have qualifications that a pistol must meet for concealed carry (e.g. maximum length, maximum weight, etc.), others do not. Similarly, some states have limitations on carrying a "loaded" rifle, or a rifle in a condition that is substantially ready to fire (one example would be having an AR15 in the trunk with loaded magazines also in the car, at the ready).

Assuming legality of the following with respect to a specific state, and barring limitations imposed on the classification of a pistol... one could legally conceal carry an AR pistol with the SB15 brace installed thereby allowing the carry of an SBR equivalent or rifle; which would otherwise be illegal. The SB15 grants the user a controllable, rifle class weapon in a pistol package for every day carry in MANY places that would otherwise legally forbid it. This includes simply having the weapon in the trunk of a car, at the ready.

If you're an LEO or someone who can (and does) use an SBR for some legal employment related purpose, you may be (and probably are) exempt from the limiting legal framework that would otherwise restrict use. That condition puts you on a legitimate pedestal to look down on "wanna-be" SBR users as "that guy"... Anyone who else who shares that opinion without the qualification overtly appears ignorant to the substantial benefits. If you're just an "average joe" citizen who believes in appropriately exercising the rights granted by the second amendment, you now have a way to legally carry relatively equalizing firepower.

Is this qualification on the razors edge of legality? I would say so. But I would also say, without qualm, that it is a totally defensible position. I would also say that prosecuting a case where the only "offense" is the questionable use of the brace to be a VERY difficult case to win giving the current laws; and no attorney or DA likes to take on cases that are almost certain to fail - especially when important precedent is at stake. However, I would revise my position should it be a "tack-on" offense...

So if we're talking about hanging with the cool kids at the range, you have to rock the SBR. But if we're talking about practically exercising the second amendment with a "real" gun with legitimate purpose... well, you can put together a very compelling weapon system using the SB15 that will easily fit in a gym bag or even briefcase that will also be legal for the intended use. And that's a very powerful position, IMO. Will it be beyond reproach should it come to it? Probably not. But I can't see anyone being exclusively indicted for it either; i.e. being prosecuted JUST for the weapon system setup.

SBRs come with a mountain of legal responsibility and prosecutable offenses - even if you're an LEO... pistols on the other hand, not so much.

I hope this helps and addresses your question (my assumption based on bolded text).

Can you please explain this in detail?

[Iraqgunz]

Rather than draw it out. Saying that the carrying of concealed long guns in Florida is prohibited and the using the SB15 as part of an AR pistol would negate that issue.

And to add to that. Even if you have an AR pistol, it is entirely possible that it could be misidentified and you can still be arrested as has happened in Texas and other places.

This is what I was trying to address with my other posts. To start with the obvious, laws pertaining to NFA items vary state by state and are far more complicated than non NFA items. There are states that outright ban suppressors and/or SBRs. Others have transportation and use restrictions. I'm not going to list all the intricacies as the above will be enough to help illustrate the point.

Ignorance is no excuse from the law and every individual needs to understand the limits of the statues of a specific state. However, in many states a license to carry a concealed weapon limits that concealed weapon to a handgun specifically; a pistol being acceptable. Some states have qualifications that a pistol must meet for concealed carry (e.g. maximum length, maximum weight, etc.), others do not. Similarly, some states have limitations on carrying a "loaded" rifle, or a rifle in a condition that is substantially ready to fire (one example would be having an AR15 in the trunk with loaded magazines also in the car, at the ready).

Assuming legality of the following with respect to a specific state, and barring limitations imposed on the classification of a pistol... one could legally conceal carry an AR pistol with the SB15 brace installed thereby allowing the carry of an SBR equivalent or rifle; which would otherwise be illegal. The SB15 grants the user a controllable, rifle class weapon in a pistol package for every day carry in MANY places that would otherwise legally forbid it. This includes simply having the weapon in the trunk of a car, at the ready.

If you're an LEO or someone who can (and does) use an SBR for some legal employment related purpose, you may be (and probably are) exempt from the limiting legal framework that would otherwise restrict use. That condition puts you on a legitimate pedestal to look down on "wanna-be" SBR users as "that guy"... Anyone who else who shares that opinion without the qualification overtly appears ignorant to the substantial benefits. If you're just an "average joe" citizen who believes in appropriately exercising the rights granted by the second amendment, you now have a way to legally carry relatively equalizing firepower.

Is this qualification on the razors edge of legality? I would say so. But I would also say, without qualm, that it is a totally defensible position. I would also say that prosecuting a case where the only "offense" is the questionable use of the brace to be a VERY difficult case to win giving the current laws; and no attorney or DA likes to take on cases that are almost certain to fail - especially when important precedent is at stake. However, I would revise my position should it be a "tack-on" offense...

So if we're talking about hanging with the cool kids at the range, you have to rock the SBR. But if we're talking about practically exercising the second amendment with a "real" gun with legitimate purpose... well, you can put together a very compelling weapon system using the SB15 that will easily fit in a gym bag or even briefcase that will also be legal for the intended use. And that's a very powerful position, IMO. Will it be beyond reproach should it come to it? Probably not. But I can't see anyone being exclusively indicted for it either; i.e. being prosecuted JUST for the weapon system setup.

SBRs come with a mountain of legal responsibility and prosecutable offenses - even if you're an LEO... pistols on the other hand, not so much.

I hope this helps and addresses your question (my assumption based on bolded text).