AR Pistol for Home Defense

[judsonm123]

I think this is a better thread on the same topic...

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-430727.html


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[Iraqgunz]

Myself and many others have routinely recommended an AR of some variety. In my case it happens to be a suppressed SBR. Though I wouldn't hesitate to grab one of the others. I'm more worried about others things than hearing loss in a situation that may only happen once in a lifetime.

Iraqgunz, what firearm do you recommend for home defense?

Just curious.

I agree that anything supersonic, even suppressed, will be very loud indoors.

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[CaliAR]

I think this is a better thread on the same topic...

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-430727.html

There's a litany of related threads all over the net, I've seen one, a pretty good one actually, go on for 5 pages, with a lot of input from LEO and Military. The discussion usually centers around whether the AR should be used or not, and then there's talk about Silencers, and then someone comes in with Db levels of all other weapons (and how closely they all resemble each other anyway... or how even a 9mm actually has more Db... etc), and then someone comes in with another study that indicates Db levels cannot be properly measured because of limitations in measurement technology ... how can a 9mm register louder than an AR or 45? That's ridiculous. It usually ends up with "Better to be deaf than dead, etc..." all good points and good discussions, with lots to learn from I think, but once you start reading them, they all become the same. Needless to say alternative firearms to the AR are always brought up, and then the circle goes around again.

Few if ever, talk about the AR Pistol which is the largest growing segment of the marketplace. Even fewer will ever talk about experiencing an AR Pistol/SBR without ears, much less an AR Pistol/SBR with a muzzle brake... and that's what I'm saying, this thing is on a level of its own, it so loud you will be incapacitated for several seconds... this is much different from shooting a 9mm or even an AR with a longer barrel, which is loud but you can carry on.

I wanted to discuss possible solutions, generate ideas and deliberate how the AR Pistol CAN be used for HD, even if those solutions were to minimize the detrimental effect of sound, rather than eliminate it. As you saw, we can talk about a thousand ways it CAN'T be done, but what fun is there in that?

When I had that "no ears" shooting incident with my AR Pistol (the 7.62x39 one, with muzzle brake!!) it was my left ear that took it all. My right ear was perfectly fine. That tells me that the direction of the auditory report projects to is essential. It is a no brainer that a linear compensator will help, I'm just not sure that it is all that better than an A2...
.

[jonbondave]

My hearing isn't the thing I keep a firearm ready to protect... AMBUSH!@ everyone apply ear pro!@


I think an AR pistol would be fine for home defense. While maybe not precision shooters, at the ranges commonly found in a living space they would be more than adequate. I don't think anyone would argue that SBR's suck for CQB. Just saying. with the SB 15, misued the firearm behaves IMHO identical to a SBR. Benefits include the ability to easily mount red dot and white light in a package that delivers quite a bit more on target than common handguns. 5.56 also is less likely to punch through your home, let alone your neighbors exterior wall than say any 9mm/.45 etc. I would stay clear of 7.62 x 39 for HD because it is exactly the opposite in the over penetration department. While at range the russian round suffers quite a bit less from the short barrel, at sub 200 yards the 5.56 out of a 10-12 inch barrel is effective.

[judsonm123]

Iraqgunz, thanks for the reply. Your setup is what I'd eventually like to have.

I live in GA and I currently have two AR pistols.

If you had to choose, would you prioritize adding a stock or a can to an AR pistol?

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[Iraqgunz]

I don't own AR pistols nor do I recommend them so I can't really comment. I don't see why one would need to prioritize anything. Do a Form 1 and make the SBR. Then get a suppressor. Either way its going to be a wait. In the mean time I would perfectly happy with a 16" carbine.

Iraqgunz, thanks for the reply. Your setup is what I'd eventually like to have.

I live in GA and I currently have two AR pistols.

If you had to choose, would you prioritize adding a stock or a can to an AR pistol?

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[judsonm123]

Thanks for the response.

BTW, I also own a 16" carbine. That was the first AR I purchased.

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[WillBrink]

There's a litany of related threads all over the net, I've seen one, a pretty good one actually, go on for 5 pages, with a lot of input from LEO and Military. The discussion usually centers around whether the AR should be used or not, and then there's talk about Silencers, and then someone comes in with Db levels of all other weapons (and how closely they all resemble each other anyway... or how even a 9mm actually has more Db... etc), and then someone comes in with another study that indicates Db levels cannot be properly measured because of limitations in measurement technology ... how can a 9mm register louder than an AR or 45? That's ridiculous. It usually ends up with "Better to be deaf than dead, etc..." all good points and good discussions, with lots to learn from I think, but once you start reading them, they all become the same. Needless to say alternative firearms to the AR are always brought up, and then the circle goes around again.

Few if ever, talk about the AR Pistol which is the largest growing segment of the marketplace. Even fewer will ever talk about experiencing an AR Pistol/SBR without ears, much less an AR Pistol/SBR with a muzzle brake... and that's what I'm saying, this thing is on a level of its own, it so loud you will be incapacitated for several seconds... this is much different from shooting a 9mm or even an AR with a longer barrel, which is loud but you can carry on.

I wanted to discuss possible solutions, generate ideas and deliberate how the AR Pistol CAN be used for HD, even if those solutions were to minimize the detrimental effect of sound, rather than eliminate it. As you saw, we can talk about a thousand ways it CAN'T be done, but what fun is there in that?

When I had that "no ears" shooting incident with my AR Pistol (the 7.62x39 one, with muzzle brake!!) it was my left ear that took it all. My right ear was perfectly fine. That tells me that the direction of the auditory report projects to is essential. It is a no brainer that a linear compensator will help, I'm just not sure that it is all that better than an A2...
.

The circle really comes back to the fact the BTDT community of shooters don't tend to view AR pistols as anything beyond plinkers/range fun and not serious tools of war or HD as far as I know. For example, "I don't own AR pistols nor do I recommend them" - Iraqgunz, tells me what I need to know, and I don't know another high level combat shooter who would recommend the AR pistol as a go to tool for HD who would counter that bolded part for that use. There's no doubt a reason for that. I'd find out what that reason is, and stop trying to fit round peg into square hole.

So, first establish if anyone with the creds to recommend the AR pistol for that use does so. If yes, then find out how they set it up and apply as best you can if you're set on that. If not, move on I'd say. Not trying to shut down good conversation, but that's the pragmatic cut to the essential issue approach I favor.

Your mileage may differ.

[CaliAR]

The circle really comes back to the fact the BTDT community of shooters don't tend to view AR pistols as anything beyond plinkers/range fun and not serious tools of war or HD as far as I know. For example, "I don't own AR pistols nor do I recommend them" - Iraqgunz, tells me what I need to know, and I don't know another high level combat shooter who would recommend the AR pistol as a go to tool for HD who would counter that bolded part for that use. There's no doubt a reason for that. I'd find out what that reason is, and stop trying to fit round peg into square hole.

So, first establish if anyone with the creds to recommend the AR pistol for that use does so. If yes, then find out how they set it up and apply as best you can if you're set on that. If not, move on I'd say. Not trying to shut down good conversation, but that's the pragmatic cut to the essential issue approach I favor.

Your mileage may differ.

Sure my mind is open to advice from people who know what they are talking about. I wouldn't seek advise from one who has never owned though. Many old timers will take one look at the AR Pistol and snarl at it. Some may pick it up, fire a few shots, and develop a conclusion based on limited exposure. With the AR Pistol one needs to spend a little time to find a comfortable position with it, then its only a matter of time before the shooter will change his perception. The AR Pistol is not much different from an SBR, and who uses those? Also, why are they more heavily regulated? It's because they are more effective in CQB.

[Koshinn]

The AR Pistol is not much different from an SBR, and who uses those? Also, why are they more heavily regulated? It's because they are more effective in CQB.

The main advantages of long guns are the cheek and shoulder weld. Technically with an pistol, you don't get either. You can jam the buffer tube into your shoulder and use the tube as a stock, but it's pretty sub-optimal at best.

SBRs are regulated because people are stupid and also they're concealable thus aiding their use in crime, not because they're more effective in CQB.