AR Pistol for Home Defense

[CaliAR]

The main advantages of long guns are the cheek and shoulder weld. Technically with an pistol, you don't get either. You can jam the buffer tube into your shoulder and use the tube as a stock, but it's pretty sub-optimal at best.

SBRs are regulated because people are stupid and also they're concealable thus aiding their use in crime, not because they're more effective in CQB.

... Wow, that's funny, are you serious?

[WillBrink]

... Wow, that's funny, are you serious?

I'd expect he is. I'm confused, what makes you conclude what he's saying is off base and what your saying is not? You're comments are quickly reducing your credibility for having a viable opinion on this topic with each post now. Spell it out for stupid types like me. Thanx

[discreet]

Ok, that's a lot of questions, but I'll address the first one which is the most important one, and the reason why I wanted to "hear" (pardon the pun) from experienced warriors.

Your first question was: Why are you concerned about sound?

Unless you have experienced shooting without ears from an AR with a short barrel, I can understand why you would think the sound is not a concern. Perhaps you should try it, and it may change your mind like it did mine and understand why I am thinking about going to a Krinkov muzzle device or just keep the A2 -- both of which I have not tried without ears. Obviously, I'm not about to try it especially what I experienced recently... but I should would like to hear from an experienced soldier/LE about Short-Barreled AR's and their use without ears.
.

I have experienced shooting with short barrel indoors, with both ears and no ears. I have a 10.3 in barrel and have spent quite a bit of time shooting in both an enclosed room, and in a basement (of course with a proper setup to do so).

I honestly see no reason one would worry about it in doors in a SHTF situation. If a blast outside made you neasueated and temporarily lost your thought pattern, you have more going on than most people. I can understand ringing etc but not to the point you wouldn't be able to answer simple questions.

When you are in a moment of high stress (shtf) scanario, your body will automically adjust to it and things that may seem bad during normal shooting/life, won't even be noticable as you will be focused on other things. Our bodies do funny things when self preservation is brought into play.

Point is, unless your a soldier going room to room, you won't have time to grab your ears in many shtf cases and will just press on. If sound bugs you that much, get a 16in barrel and do away with the short barrel completely (especially if using a short barrel basically renders you incapaciated due to the sound).

[WillBrink]

I have experienced shooting with short barrel indoors, with both ears and no ears. I have a 10.3 in barrel and have spent quite a bit of time shooting in both an enclosed room, and in a basement (of course with a proper setup to do so).

I honestly see no reason one would worry about it in doors in a SHTF situation. If a blast outside made you neasueated and temporarily lost your thought pattern, you have more going on than most people. I can understand ringing etc but not to the point you wouldn't be able to answer simple questions.

When you are in a moment of high stress (shtf) scanario, your body will automically adjust to it and things that may seem bad during normal shooting/life, won't even be noticable as you will be focused on other things. Our bodies do funny things when self preservation is brought into play.

Point is, unless your a soldier going room to room, you won't have time to grab your ears in many shtf cases and will just press on. If sound bugs you that much, get a 16in barrel and do away with the short barrel completely (especially if using a short barrel basically renders you incapaciated due to the sound).

Is the difference in length really going to make that much of a difference in an enclosed space all things being equal? I have not shot an SBR in enclosed spaces without "ears on" to comment and I hope not to!

[discreet]

Is the difference in length really going to make that much of a difference in an enclosed space all things being equal? I have not shot an SBR in enclosed spaces without "ears on" to comment and I hope not to!

Yes, it makes a huge difference. Heck, it makes a huge difference outside as well. My 16 & 20 are mild inside compared to my 10.3 which is extremely loud in every sence of the word extremely loud. Don't get me wrong, all are still loud as hell indoors, but the short barrels make your ears want to bleed. But like said, if actually using it in a shtf situation that will be the last of your worries.

[CaliAR]

I have experienced shooting with short barrel indoors, with both ears and no ears. I have a 10.3 in barrel and have spent quite a bit of time shooting in both an enclosed room, and in a basement (of course with a proper setup to do so).

I honestly see no reason one would worry about it in doors in a SHTF situation. If a blast outside made you neasueated and temporarily lost your thought pattern, you have more going on than most people. I can understand ringing etc but not to the point you wouldn't be able to answer simple questions.

When you are in a moment of high stress (shtf) scanario, your body will automically adjust to it and things that may seem bad during normal shooting/life, won't even be noticable as you will be focused on other things. Our bodies do funny things when self preservation is brought into play.

Point is, unless your a soldier going room to room, you won't have time to grab your ears in many shtf cases and will just press on. If sound bugs you that much, get a 16in barrel and do away with the short barrel completely (especially if using a short barrel basically renders you incapaciated due to the sound).

If you say you've experienced that I'll take your word for it. What muzzle device did you have installed on that 10.3"?

[B Cart]

I think it's ironic that people highly recommend a MK18 10.3" SBR for serious use, but then say they can't recommend a 10.3" AR 'pistol' that does the exact same thing because it doesn't a plastic stock on the end

I've shot multiple registered 10.3" SBRs with stocks, and multiple 10.3" AR pistols with only the buffer tube, and they both shot the same bullets and poked holes just as effectively. There's no doubt that shouldering a buffer tube isn't as comfortable as having a stock, but to say that the exact same gun becomes un-recommendable and a 'fun range toy' because it doesn't have a stock, is just plain silly. And with the Sig brace being legal and available, an AR Pistol gives you everything an SBR with collapsed stock gives you, no matter how bad some SBR owners want to argue otherwise.

As for the sound, I agree that any rifle you shoot indoors is just going to be loud. If you can't get a suppressor, the Noveske Pig or something similar might help funnel the blast/sound forward, and outside of that, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you have to shoot someone in your home in a life or death situation, a little hearing damage will probably be the last thing you worry about.

[discreet]

If you say you've experienced that I'll take your word for it. What muzzle device did you have installed on that 10.3"?

Currently has an A2 on. Used an A1, A2, Blackout, Pig, Claymore, Rainier Mini, Battle Comp, and a gunfighter inside on it also. IMO I just didn't see any benefit or reasoning to mess with muzzle devices on a 10.3 anyways and just saved the other devices for othdr builds. Either way it's going to be obnoxious in both sound and flash no matter which way you go with it, so a 6$ muzzle device works perfect.

If I was using a can it would be an AAC blackout all the way.

[CaliAR]

I'd expect he is. I'm confused, what makes you conclude what he's saying is off base and what your saying is not? You're comments are quickly reducing your credibility for having a viable opinion on this topic with each post now. Spell it out for stupid types like me. Thanx

I'm not going to claim I'm Albert Einstein either, but I do own 2 AR Pistols, and what he said about the inability to shoulder it is totally ridiculous, especially that we are talking about CQB here and not hitting 600 yard targets. He obviously either doesn't own one, or if he does, he's not using it to its full potential.

By installing a forward angled PISTOL grip (like the Umbrella Corp or Magpul K2) it changes the geometry of how the rifle is held against the shoulder, in addition to other legal solutions to the Buffer tube area as well.

As to the comment on SBR's it's even more funny. He is talking about the ability to conceal it. Well, the ability to conceal an SBR is the very same characteristic that makes it portable... which is why its more effective in CQB!

[CaliAR]

Currently has an A2 on. Used an A1, A2, Blackout, Pig, Claymore, Rainier Mini, Battle Comp, and a gunfighter inside on it also. IMO I just didn't see any benefit or reasoning to mess with muzzle devices on a 10.3 anyways and just saved the other devices for othdr builds. Either way it's going to be obnoxious in both sound and flash no matter which way you go with it, so a 6$ muzzle device works perfect.

If I was using a can it would be an AAC blackout all the way.

That sir, is the answer I've been looking for. I may just keep my A2 on at least one of them, and perhaps try a linear can on the other... thank you