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Thread: 14.5" Recce/"Do-all" build conundrum

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    Browntip is stunningly effective from a 10.3 out to 300m. My reason is mainly blast and rail space. At this point predominantly railspace.
    I know, but most people aren't using the 70gr TSX's though.
    Dogma is failure - Ken Hackathorn

    Only performance counts - Paul Sharp

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
    I know, but most people aren't using the 70gr TSX's though.
    I understand. That is my go to load when not plinking or running drills though. 2800fps from a 14.5" barrel.
    Last edited by WS6; 04-17-14 at 22:43.

  3. #33
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    From everything I am seeing, the 14.5" with carbine system is the way I should go. The port size spec'ed by DD is 0.067". Slightly larger than mil-spec. Should barely shuffle along with an H2 buffer and new spring using Wolf and other junk for high-volume without being too overgassed at all with the M855 and Browntip.

    Their midlength 14.5" has a 0.076" gas-port, which would likely require a carbine buffer.

    More mass/More gas should = more reliable, to a point, and I think the 14.5" with 0.067" gas port and carbine system is best, based on the reliability tests Mike Pannone has conducted, etc. Speaking with someone from Daniel Defense who has shot their M4A1, and their 14.5" middy system, he says the difference is very minor, and with an H2 the M4A1 suppressed is similar to their suppressed middy with an H buffer. Both run fine with an H, though, he says.

    I tend to agree with Mike Pannone. I had a Noveske 10.5" SBR, and with an H or H2 buffer and mil-spec spring, I got a lot of jams on the feed-ramps (sharp). I put an H3 and Sprinco Blue spring in, and the jams were MUCH less frequent, as the casings were bent like bannana's but jammed into the chamber anyway and fire-formed. (Noveske has since made things right!). So, I have seen first-hand that a slightly over-gassed gun running heavy spring/buffer is going to be more reliable when things aren't perfect.
    Last edited by WS6; 04-21-14 at 23:40.

  4. #34
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    Well, going to order in a day or two. Still leaning toward the carbine system. My only concern that anyone has voiced that bothers me is the claim that a 0.067" port on a 14.5" carbine will erode over time (5-10K rounds) and cause reliability issues before the throat is toast. Daniel Defense bevels their gas-ports and uses a good steel, hammer forged, so I am hoping that won't be a problem, and I have never heard of a Colt 6920 which uses a 16.1" barrel and 0.063" port eroding so bad as to cause an issue, so...

  5. #35
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    You're putting way too much thought into this...

    Just as an FYI, DD opened up the gas port on their barrels precisely because of the issues that people were having who wanted to shoot Wolf/Tula/Brown Bear. KAC had to do the exact same thing with the SR15... I don't understand people who spend $1.5-2.5K on a rifle and another $2K on accessories only to shoot the crappiest ammo available. But, hey, who am I to tell people how dumb their financial decisions are?

    My DD XV is from 2009, when they first began manufacturing rifles. And I can tell you, even though it is carbine gas, it simply does not like Wolf. Mine will short stroke about once every few dozen rounds. I've been meaning to swap out to a carbine buffer when I use crummy ammo, but I haven't shot crappy ammo out of it in awhile so I haven't felt the need to.

    I don't know why you're putting in this much thought into a rifle that you're going to use to shoot Wolf ammo out of. You're not going to shoot to a high level of performance with it, regardless of whether or not you have a CHF or SS barrel, a free float or non-free float rail, or a Swarovski or a Bushnell scope.

    Buy a Colt 6921 upper from Grant and be done with it.

  6. #36
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    Here's a link to help you along:
    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...n&key=LE6921CK

    That is a SMOKING deal, btw. A genuine Colt upper with a Colt BCG and charging handle, along with a flip-up BUIS? Absolutely smoking deal...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    You're putting way too much thought into this...

    Just as an FYI, DD opened up the gas port on their barrels precisely because of the issues that people were having who wanted to shoot Wolf/Tula/Brown Bear. KAC had to do the exact same thing with the SR15... I don't understand people who spend $1.5-2.5K on a rifle and another $2K on accessories only to shoot the crappiest ammo available. But, hey, who am I to tell people how dumb their financial decisions are?

    I shoot around 5K rounds a year typically (this year has been light, sadly) with Viking Tactics and others. I have yet to shoot at a distance (past 200m) that Tula would be a disadvantage to ASYM, etc. at. Why is it dumb to spend $300 on ammo instead of $450 on ammo if the training result is the same?

    My DD XV is from 2009, when they first began manufacturing rifles. And I can tell you, even though it is carbine gas, it simply does not like Wolf. Mine will short stroke about once every few dozen rounds. I've been meaning to swap out to a carbine buffer when I use crummy ammo, but I haven't shot crappy ammo out of it in awhile so I haven't felt the need to.

    I don't know why you're putting in this much thought into a rifle that you're going to use to shoot Wolf ammo out of. You're not going to shoot to a high level of performance with it, regardless of whether or not you have a CHF or SS barrel, a free float or non-free float rail, or a Swarovski or a Bushnell scope.

    Just because I plan on doing high-volume training with it doesn't mean I don't also want good performance when I shove 5.56 Browntip and the like down the pipe.

    Buy a Colt 6921 upper from Grant and be done with it.
    Smoking deal, but not what I'm after. Great deal, though! Amazing deal, really!!!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    I shoot around 5K rounds a year typically (this year has been light, sadly) with Viking Tactics and others. I have yet to shoot at a distance (past 200m) that Tula would be a disadvantage to ASYM, etc. at. Why is it dumb to spend $300 on ammo instead of $450 on ammo if the training result is the same?
    The issue isn't the volume of ammo--the issue is the amount of Wolf being shot relative to the total volume being shot. If you shoot 4,500 rounds of Wolf for every 500 rounds of M193 or Mk262, it makes no sense to build a high cost rifle to shoot only that 500 rounds... the rifle should be built around the primary type of ammo being shot through it.

    With this in mind, a plain jane 4150 chrome-lined 1/7 twist carbine barrel paired up with a Colt recoil spring and a carbine or H-buffer will be more than sufficient for the task at hand.

    As far as I am concerned, a rifle built primarily for Wolf should be a relatively inexpensive beater gun.

    To do otherwise is akin to buying a Lamborghini and only putting premium gas in the tank once or twice a year.
    Last edited by justin_247; 05-08-14 at 10:20.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    The issue isn't the volume of ammo--the issue is the amount of Wolf being shot relative to the total volume being shot. If you shoot 4,500 rounds of Wolf for every 500 rounds of M193 or Mk262, it makes no sense to build a high cost rifle to shoot only that 500 rounds... the rifle should be built around the primary type of ammo being shot through it.

    With this in mind, a plain jane 4150 chrome-lined 1/7 twist carbine barrel paired up with a Colt recoil spring and a carbine or H-buffer will be more than sufficient for the task at hand.

    As far as I am concerned, a rifle built primarily for Wolf should be a relatively inexpensive beater gun.

    To do otherwise is akin to buying a Lamborghini and only putting premium gas in the tank once or twice a year.
    Semantics aside, I'd rather build 1 rifle instead of two. I didn't see much of a downside to a 14.5/Carbine system, so that's what I went with.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    Semantics aside, I'd rather build 1 rifle instead of two. I didn't see much of a downside to a 14.5/Carbine system, so that's what I went with.
    I agree. What brand/model did you choose?

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