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Thread: Magpul M-LOK

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
    OK, another standard. This is going to get ugly. I don't want plastic attachments either, but the thing that bugs me is the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray type issue that confuses the market and pisses people off when they find out that their rail cannot accept the newest direct attach kit because a vendor only supports one or the other.

    I guess it'll be interesting to see what happens. I'll stick with keymod until there is a compelling reason to change because I don't see anything compelling right now.
    All the manufacturers that jumped on the keymod bandwagon are also probably rolling their eyes as well.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
    OK, another standard. This is going to get ugly. I don't want plastic attachments either, but the thing that bugs me is the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray type issue that confuses the market and pisses people off when they find out that their rail cannot accept the newest direct attach kit because a vendor only supports one or the other.

    I guess it'll be interesting to see what happens. I'll stick with keymod until there is a compelling reason to change because I don't see anything compelling right now.
    MOE handguards dont directly accept picatiny accessories and they have not had a hard time selling their product. And I dont think anyone was confused about the support for the MOE line either.

    I for one am interested. I dont need a rail, keymod or other, to mount a light and vfg. So for me a MOE handguard works and is affordable, and if they can improve it all the better.
    Not to say there are no advantages to a rail (i.e. free floated barrel) but its up to the individual to compare these with the added cost. Its kind of hard to compare a $40 handguard vs a $300. A better comparison would me Magpuls offering vs the B5 polymer keymod handguard. And if what Magpul says is true, the B5 might have issues in the long run.
    Last edited by dentron; 04-23-14 at 17:25.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by 351322 View Post
    The alloy does help keep the weight down, but I think the keymod is the biggest contributor to the weight savings.
    KMR is more than just weight savings, where the cross bolts meet the barrel nut is another part of the genius of the system. If the M-look is to give KMR serious competition it will need a rail that can compete with the KMR in weight, thinness, having 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 & 10:30 direct attachment points along with a similar system to lock the rail up... I also don't see how M-LOL rail panels will work, maybe not a big deal to everyone but it is an issue. I also wonder if they'll be able to make a direct attach VFG that will attach without the use of any tools (something the BCM keymod VFG achieves).

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    What do you mean? On the Keymod both the hardware and rail are all metal. If the actual piece of gear is plastic, then that really is an issue with the gear, not the attachment.
    Well yes and no, right? Sling mounts and handstops are metal, but BCM ships the rail with polymer rails. As another poster just referred, it seems like the M-Lok was developed solely for using polymer/plastic attachments; due to the "fact" that Keymod didn't allow for that.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrioticDisorder View Post
    If the M-look is to give KMR serious competition it will need a rail that can compete with the KMR in weight, thinness, having 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 & 10:30 direct attachment points along with a similar system to lock the rail up.
    You are comparing a single rail system (BCM KMR) to an entirely new standardized method of attaching rails (M-Lok). Not a valid comparison.

  6. #96
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    I just don't get it. I don't need to slide picatinny rails and accessories back and forth freely.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by dentron View Post
    MOE handguards dont directly accept picatiny accessories and they have not had a hard time selling their product. And I dont think anyone was confused about the support for the MOE line either.

    I for one am interested. I dont need a rail, keymod or other, to mount a light and vfg. So for me a MOE handguard works and is affordable, and if they can improve it all the better.
    Not to say there are no advantages to a rail (i.e. free floated barrel) but its up to the individual to compare these with the added cost. Its kind of hard to compare a $40 handguard vs a $300. A better comparison would me Magpuls offering vs the B5 polymer keymod handguard. And if what Magpul says is true, the B5 might have issues in the long run.
    There is a good point here, if magpul is shooting for the same market that they have held for quite some time, that is to say the market of people wishing to have a drop in system that allows more flexibility and mounting option than a standard handguard at a low price point and is now looking at improving the system so that it is easier for those to mount the hardware without having to constantly mount and remove the handguard then I don't see magpul having issues. The MOE mounting system was taken by IWC and they produced some very nice options for the system. Blunt answer, yes there is room enough for both systems in the market place, if anything Magpul, with their market proliferation among weekend shooters may have an advantage over Keymod actually.

    I still stand by my musing that this might also be the opening of magpul offering a free float system that would need a mounting system like this since it would not allow constant removal of the handguard to mount a rail section or other items. Too early to call one way or the other.
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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lopro619 View Post
    Magpul just responded on TOS on exactly what the problem with keymod and their polymer is.

    "As stated before the KeyMod's conical head bolts were designed for metal and are not a viable solution for mounting accessories on polymer handguards such as the MOE series. On plastic materials, the conical mating surfaces of KeyMod will either promote cracking or loosening due to creep and deformation of the polymer material. So using KeyMod on MOE series handguards was not an option.

    We would have been perfectly happy to adopt another standard...we certainly would have rather used the design and engineering time to work on actual physical products. We set out to test everything out there, and talked to manufacturers of metal rails as well as using our own experience in polymer. After the dust cleared from shaker table time with heat cycles, live fire, pull out testing, drop tests, etc., etc., we ended up with M-LOK.

    We thought about this one for a while, as we didn't want to be seen as muddying the marketplace "just because", but the results from our testing, and the response from our initial contacts with metal rail manufacturers about the ease with which M-LOK is machined made the case for release." - Magpul
    Quote Originally Posted by JChops View Post
    You are comparing a single rail system (BCM KMR) to an entirely new standardized method of attaching rails (M-Lok). Not a valid comparison.
    It's not really a comparison, it's more of a statement. Having a rail that will accept m-lok accessories that is in the same league as the KMR (IMO nothing is right now) will be an important consideration to many people... This is another HD-DVD vs. Blu Ray as someone mentioned earlier, but keymod is already proving to be the Blu Ray.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrioticDisorder View Post
    It's not really a comparison, it's more of a statement. Having a rail that will accept m-lok accessories that is in the same league as the KMR (IMO nothing is right now) will be an important consideration to many people... This is another HD-DVD vs. Blu Ray as someone mentioned earlier, but keymod is already proving to be the Blu Ray.
    The KMR is the new standard for a slick lightweight rail. But we are mostly discussing the new mounting method and comparing it to keymod. Right now when I am thinking of comparing the M Lok to keymod, the most talked about rail is the KMR. So I think it is just natural for us to make a comparison between the two. I think they only way a new rail with the M Lok could compete with the KMR is for BCM to also make a rail with M Loc. If they don't, then it will probably be a while before we see something comparable.

    I was very tempted to buy a KMR, only because I am building an SBR upper. I just can not justify the cost of the rail for the amount of shooting I do with my carbine. The Troy TRX rail that I have been using for the last few years has held up fine with its mounting system, so I bought a MI SS rail. I would rather spend the money on ammo and training. A lot of other people are going to be looking for an economical rail, what if ALG and/or MI starts to make thier rails with M Lok? Those things will fly off the shelf as long as there readily available accessories.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanCrothers View Post
    I'm glad they aren't just following the masses and putting out keymod because everyone else is. Keymod systems and accessories are on the verge of an almost guaranteed saturated keymod market within a year to date.
    As a consumer you want a market saturation, more options and better pricing. Now as a manufacturer? Nope.

    Everyone keeps making HD-DVD and BlueRay comparisons but right now with so many different "universal" (universal so long as everyone uses that pattern...) attachment methods this is really more like digital storage.
    Rail systems are CD drives (or 3.5" diskettes or whatever legacy standard). The newer attachments, all trying to be the new standard are Compact Flash, Memory Stick, MMC, xD, Smart Media..... you get the idea. The fight now is who becomes the SD.

    ETA: None of this is to say that there isn't a market for more than one system, just not a dozen. It would be a big step if some were backwards compatible.
    Last edited by Dave_M; 04-23-14 at 21:03.

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