Bowie/Burwell M&P work

[M4arc]

All - I haven't used either but I don't want this to get out of hand so....

I know Burwell does offer a defensive trigger package in addition to a competition one. Please provide you experiences and let the OP decide what is best for him.

[Heavy Metal]

It was a competition job, but that brings up the question of why would you buy something, even for play, that is likely to quit working for you? The example I saw didn't last 50 rounds before the diaper failed...

In all fairness Wayne, that is a sample of one.

[John_Wayne777]

For clarification:

Mine has the "Carry" trigger job, and it is PLENTY light. I don't have a trigger scale but I'd guess it is in the 4-5 pound range with a *very* clean break.

Personally I wouldn't go *any* lighter on a weapon meant for serious social purposes. I wouldn't get the "competition" trigger offered by Mr. Burwell unless it was genuinely on a competition only handgun.

[exitinyourhead]

I have a 4.5lb trigger done by Dan Burwell. I haven't shot it a ton as i have just gotten it back but i've put about 300 rounds of reloads through it without any trigger failure. It's nice, smooth and accurate.

fwiw i also had
melt job - nice
nickle teflon - nice
10-8 wide rear with a trijicon slim night front install - accurate

I purchased this firearm for my wife. I did the mods hoping it would be accurate and reliable with a very predicatable and smooth trigger pull. I am very satisfied and she absolutely loves it. She was able to shoot well with it her first time and gushes over the looks of it. I would send another to him.

I am going to send my HK45 to Bowie for his trigger and fix so I'll be able to see how his work stacks up as well. I've heard 95 - 99 percent great things about both smiths and I would be confident that if i didn't send them a gun and do things that would change it into a race gun that it would be a reliable defense gun afterwords. Would I still put 300/400 rounds through it to test it? Yes, I would. Would I try different ammo types? You bet ya.

I also like to take other people's malfunctions with a grain of salt. I'll watch/listen/evaluate, but in the long run... I didn't dissasemble/reassemble. I didn't choose parts. I didn't choose ammo. My hands aren't on the firearm. I'm not saying if it didn't happen to me that it didn't happen. I'm just saying it didn't happen to me.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Yes, I realize that it's a sample of one. Truthfully, about 99% of us base more of our decisions than we would honestly like to admit on "samples of one". This sample of one was a student that drove to Texas from California for a LAV class with a gun that he spent a sum of money on to have worked over by one of the current two prominent M&P gun doctors. He didn't bring an extra gun (and doom on him for that oversight) and used one of my extra guns to complete the class. The "sample of one" took an early and bad dump. It was a tough lesson and one that stuck with the whole class, LAV included.

I'm sure Burwell does good work and I KNOW that David does. But, that "sample of one" didn't help Dan's reputation with a bunch of folks that watched the failure and I note that Larry now has Bowie as the point of contact for any work needed on HK45s.

[Jay Cunningham]

and I note that Larry now has Bowie as the point of contact for any work needed on HK45s.

Burwell only does M&P work. Bowie works on various poly pistols, and customized LAV's Glock back in the day.

[NCPatrolAR]

Yes, I realize that it's a sample of one. Truthfully, about 99% of us base more of our decisions than we would honestly like to admit on "samples of one". This sample of one was a student that drove to Texas from California for a LAV class with a gun that he spent a sum of money on to have worked over by one of the current two prominent M&P gun doctors. He didn't bring an extra gun (and doom on him for that oversight) and used one of my extra guns to complete the class. The "sample of one" took an early and bad dump. It was a tough lesson and one that stuck with the whole class, LAV included.

I'm sure Burwell does good work and I KNOW that David does. But, that "sample of one" didn't help Dan's reputation with a bunch of folks that watched the failure and I note that Larry now has Bowie as the point of contact for any work needed on HK45s.

As if it matters, Larry has messed with my Burwell worked-over M&Ps on several occassions and has seen my guns come through 4 or 5 of his courses without a hiccup. Ken H has tried them out also and did a direct comparison of them to Bowie's work. IIRC, Ken prefered Dave's work which is fine by me. Bill Jeans has also taken a look at Burwells work via my pistols and has seemed to be impressed with them.

Ultimately choose whichever one makes you the most happy. I know I've made my decision.

[nickdrak]

My Burwell worked over M&P45 has 1300rds through it since the trigger job. Zero issues.

[ToddG]

Someone asked basically, "Why would you offer (or get) a trigger job that might compromise reliability?"

The most common reason is that some action work can affect the amount of impact force the striker/firing pin imparts on the primer. There is a SAAMI firing pin indent standard (0.009" for small pistol primer ammo; 0.011" for large pistol primer ammo), and most stock service-grade guns will beat that by a significant margin. However, if you can be selective about your ammo, you can go lighter. For example, Federal primers are softer than most, and so they will go off when hit lighter than many other brands. One frequently heard caveat to competition trigger jobs, then, is "only guaranteed to work with Federal primers."

The real question should be, "Why would anyone show up to an LAV class (or any other combat-oriented training) with a gun tricked out for competition?" Sympathy level: zero.

If you pay someone to take your gun to the edge, don't be surprised if it falls off.

[RWK]

If you pay someone to take your gun to the edge, don't be surprised if it falls off.

Too true! I found this to be true last year when I took a Vanek-triggered Glock 35 to Rogers. It was practically uncontrollable.