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Thread: The Weapons of Marine Recon: Everything You Wanted To Know And More

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Yeah, since we didn't want folks to destroy their expensive suppressors, we had the audacity to change pin locations to ensure their safety.
    Shooting a suppressor made to use a muzzle device for front end stabilization on a barrel with no muzzle device is going to result in a shot-up can.
    I was going to post this. Th guy hasn't taken a look at the barrel end of his M110 and a Mk11.

  2. #42
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    Out where they were in norther Helmand, engagement distances are either rock-throwing distance due to village adobe geometry, or are only getting started at 400m. For a DM type position there, all that extra crap on the rifle becomes indispensable, because nobody on the other side wants to get popped in broad daylight implanting IEDs, so they're out there at night (here's a 1.5lb clip-on NV device), and dealing with spotters during the day (here's a 4x optic at a minimum, anybody in a caliber other than 5.56 you're looking at a 3-12x/3-15x like he mentioned as a primary optic solution because watching what those asshats are up to is more important than most anything else). Suppressors are nice, most of the time the platoon i was attached to needed the cans for quietly dispatching feral dogs the size of smart cars, but there's another pound of necessity for the mission, dangling off the far end of a rifle. Having an M203 is probably more important for the Force mission than ours was (yet we ended up with a 203 on our EDL for a nominal six-man team anyway), so that's exactly how it's possible to end up with an ungodly configuration, though the /203 should be purposed as a TL/ATL weapon, and in no way be used alongside a precision setup because the net result is a weapon system too heavy to do either role usefully.

    Considering that wacky discrepancy in engagement distance, the TA31/Offset T1 setup probably was the right call; I can see why line units got Mk12's instead of Mk11's, but the scarcity of Mk262 made those things more useful for the glass on them (even though it was just Mk4 MR/T' TS30's) than the capability of the barrel, and the OPS 12th made it quiet enough to deal with wild animals, or improve utility of follow-up shots the rare times it was possible to get the drop on ****tards digging festive potholes in the road. Having better equipped and trained cats available for overwatch roles is something the Recon side enjoys, that the company I was with only had a semblance of because the CO came from MARSOC previously, and a couple staff SNCO's were switched on enough to realize distributed OP's with overlapping overwatch was the only answer for filling holes in G-BOSS coverage.

    And as for the KAC dig - you're looking at the combined effect of multiple rapid RFP's and minimal consideration to the supply chain of what actually can benefit end users ideally; the only reason that sort of thing became an issue is that various contract sources at different points in time kept realizing they need something in 7.62x51mm that was semiautomatic, reasonably accurate, and had a can; the fact that the Marine Corps s receiving virtually all of these second-hand ensures that we only ever got the mutt mix of somebody else's garbage RFP writing, and for something that is effectively dedicated to the individual weapon like an NSN Match type Suppressor, the honest answer is that the military never having the foresight to realize that these are modular weapon systems in the first place and put out an order for M110 AND M110-C kits is still mind-boggling. The fact that nobody in acquisition has the sense, honesty, and power to put their foot down and say 'F it, put the collapsible stock on everything since we're wearing body armor from here on out; order a long range precision upper 20" variant with a long very effective can AND have a 16" urban upper with a stubby can, and make them share mounting systems' is more of a demonstration of the endemic ineptitude of the defense acquisition system, not the contractor who is paid to supply what the contract language stipulates.

    I still get a kick out of the nearly ubiquitous DPM jacket trading - somebody with access to a shipping container of those things was trading them out for any useful USMC memorabilia, so we ended up with some pretty decent jackets, and I still wish I'd just ponied up the cash to trade for an Argyll and Sutherland belt.
    Last edited by TehLlama; 05-09-14 at 16:28.
    عندما تصبح الأسلحة محظورة, قد يملكون حظرون عندهم فقط
    کله چی سلاح منع شوی دی، یوازي غلوونکۍ یی به درلود
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  3. #43
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    That was very interesting and informative. Thanks for posting.
    "When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not Guilty." ~ Theodore Roosevelt

    "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." ~ Colonel Jeff Cooper

    "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  4. #44
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    Actually, when the Navy (Crane) transitioned to the M110 SR-25 configuration versus the Mk11 Mod 0, they insisted on us (KAC) making it impossible for some unknowing individual to inadvertently mount an M110 suppressor (which is longer inside to make room for the M110 flash suppressor; and thus longer in overall barrel length even though the basic 20" barrels between the Mk11 and the M110 are identical except for the M110's muzzle threads).
    Crane knew that these M110 type rifles (with flash suppressors) would find their way to Navy, Army, Marine armories that already had Mk11's and Mk11 suppressors. And since it was next to impossible to mount a Mk11 suppressor to an M110, they wanted the reverse to be true as well.
    Hope this helps clarify.
    ColdBlue sends...
    (CB is David A. Lutz, Lt. Col. USMC (Ret'd) (1968-1991)
    Former (now retired) VP MilOps @ Knight's Armament Company (KAC) (1994-2012)
    "...if you can read this, thank a Teacher,
    if you are reading this in English, thank a Veteran..."

  5. #45
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    On my last deployment a good friend of mine had a setup similar to that god-awful M4, except his was an M16A4/203. The thing felt like it weighed as much as a SAW, and that was without an extra pound hanging off of the muzzle. I truly pity the author for having to carry that monstrosity. Great article though, it gives great insight as to what a grunt looks for in a rifle vs. your average civilian shooter.
    0311
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  6. #46
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    Great reading, thanks for the link!

  7. #47
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    Awesome. Thanks for taking the time to compile all the history, info/pics & post a link. Very informative. Pretty cool to see the evolution of weapons use. IMO a truly exceptional part of this post is the strong sense of honor and respect it produces to see the evolution of a soldier. Impressive.

  8. #48
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    Thanks for sharing this, forwarded it to my stepson who ships out this summer, he will get a kick out of it for sure.

  9. #49
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    His write up is a perfect blend of REAL USE and Gun Guy opinion. Apparently he was wrong with the suppressor pot shot at KAC.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBugBit View Post
    I want all guys who open threads about scratches on their guns to look at the Recon firearms and then go to the mirror and slap themselves in the face.
    Most guns are in relatively good shape compare to the 90s, just because the guns are so new.

    But generally guns get dinged up being carried by troops in usage

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