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Thread: Did the ATF Open the Door for Manufacture of New Machineguns for trust?

  1. #41
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    If someone somehow got a trust approved to create a new MG, then we'd probably see legislation to start monkeying with everything trusts can presently own under the NFA just because of all the media hoopla that would ensue about people using "loopholes" to get machine guns. They wouldn't want to stop at just outlawing the new MGs, they'd go for stopping other things, too. Seems dangerous to mess with, in terms of screwing up what we can do with trusts now, to me.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by G27RR View Post
    If someone somehow got a trust approved to create a new MG...
    Doesn't matter, never gonna happen.

    That door shut back in '86.

    It didn't "open" because of some opinion given by a low level employee. It is not "open."

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
    Doesn't matter, never gonna happen.

    That door shut back in '86.

    It didn't "open" because of some opinion given by a low level employee. It is not "open."
    That's far from certain.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #44
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    if People believes there is a loop hole in the E-File System to create Post 86 samples they are on crack! Right now ATF is trying to shut down the Trust Route for SBR's, SBS', and suppressors that aren't banned because they believe there are "loopholes." Also throw in the fact the if anyone believes that those who own pre-86 samples will not be the first ones to speed-dial ATF on this are sorely mistaking. You think their investments won't be going down the drain?!?
    Last edited by veeklog; 05-18-14 at 12:03.

  5. #45
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    There is loopholes in the trust route. A felon can create a trust and register nfa items to it. Now they can not legally posses the items, but id assume that if they have gone this way that is not an issue with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by veeklog View Post
    if People believes there is a loop hole in the E-File System to create Post 86 samples they are on crack! Right now ATF is trying to shut down the Trust Route for SBR's, SBS', and suppressors that aren't banned because they believe there are "loopholes." Also throw in the fact the if anyone believes that those own pre-86 samples will not be the first ones to speed-dial ATF on this are sorely mistaking. You think their investments won't be going down the drain?!?
    I paint spaceship parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Stippled Glocks are like used underwear; previous owner makes all the difference in value.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by veeklog View Post
    if People believes there is a loop hole in the E-File System to create Post 86 samples they are on crack!
    I'm pretty sure they will come forward with the "we didn't mean that" letter, sooner than later.

    Also throw in the fact the if anyone believes that those own pre-86 samples will not be the first ones to speed-dial ATF on this are sorely mistaking.
    But certainly Obama would give them a bail out?? Perhaps buy their inventory at 25c on the dollar with taxpayer money. Then sell them to Mexico for 100% profit. Everybody wins, right?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by veeklog View Post
    Also throw in the fact the if anyone believes that those who own pre-86 samples will not be the first ones to speed-dial ATF on this are sorely mistaking. You think their investments won't be going down the drain?!?
    I wouldn't call that a "fact". "Conjecture", maybe. If you believe that most machine gun owners are in it solely for the presumption that the value of their machine guns will be constantly rising, or that they own machine guns because they enjoy lording it over other shooters that they own a machine gun and the others don't, then you might be correct.

    But in my experience, you're wrong. Most machine gun owners want to buy more machine guns than they currently own, but can't afford to. Do you think the guy who has an M11/9 now doesn't want an M16, or the guy who has an M16 doesn't want an M240? Or what about an MP7 or Glock 18 or any of the numerous other models that weren't available in 1986 and that no one can get short of becoming an FFL/SOT?

    I'm currently down to just an Uzi, having sold my M16 last year and some other ones in the years before that. Not because I needed the money, but because it didn't make financial sense to have so much money tied up in guns that I didn't shoot all that often. If I didn't have to have 5 figures tied up in each machine gun, then I'd have more of them. Also, I can't shoot rifle caliber full-auto on any regular basis because the nearest range I can do that is 70+ miles away. None of the dozen ranges closer to me allow it. Now, if everybody who owns an SBR could have a machine gun instead, then the odds are a lot better that more ranges would allow full-auto.

    And as for actually shooting machine guns, I find that doing mag dumps gets boring really quick. I'd love to shoot machine guns competitively instead of just standing stationary in an indoor lane shooting at paper, or outside shooting at dirt clods or whatever. But the nearest machine gun competition is 250+ miles away, and requires either an overnight trip or getting up at 4 am on a Saturday, so it's been awhile since I've bothered to go. If more people had machine guns, more people would want to shoot them competitively and I could likely do it somewhere closer.

    Not all machine guns would lose all their value, anyways. Sure, an M11/9 would go back to being a couple hundred dollars, but if you think a 1921 Thompson or something like that would lose much of it's value, then I think you're incorrect. A big part of its value is in the fact that it's an original.

    But go on thinking that there's some mysterious cabal of machine gun owners who want to keep the rest of the gun-owning public down.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CleverNickname View Post
    Now, if everybody who owns an SBR could have a machine gun instead, then the odds are a lot better that more ranges would allow full-auto.
    I wouldn't say that's a fact either... We have seen many cases where the public, insurance liability, etc, are keeping outdoor ranges from happening as is... much less when you tell them there will be automatic fire. ... and I'm talking about Police training private ranges as well.... They walked away from that idea here in VA just a couple years ago due to public pressure.

    I agree with you on collectable items though... but, just as some hunters will turn on other 'tactically oriented' owners... so too would some heavily invested in autos. It's no different than stock.... whatever your motivation the average person does not want to see their long term investments lose 80% of it's value... future purchases of course would rise.

    I don't believe owners are necessarily out there with a holier than thou attitude but still on a personal basis I don't think the majority would embrace losing that value in their estate ( which might even be tied up as collateral for other investments ). It's just not natural for most people to be ok with the value of their life long gatherings being reduced to pennies.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    It's just not natural for most people to be ok with the value of their life long gatherings being reduced to pennies.
    Putting personal wealth over freedom.

    'Murrica.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMEGA9000 View Post
    I wonder if current MG owners would fight this and try to push legislation since their investment would probably tank.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'll gladly take the hit for the opportunity to buy NIB machine guns at low prices and new models not previously available.

    All of my pre 86 stuff will retain some value just like my old Colts that aren't available any more.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

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