What constitutional rights?

[platoonDaddy]

Holy SHIT!

MILWAUKEE, WI — The 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that it is not a violation of constitutional rights if police break down a citizen’s door, search the home, and confiscate firearms, so long that they believe it is in the citizen’s best interest.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...es/#more-81912

EDIT: added another WTF, post # 16

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Holy SHIT!

MILWAUKEE, WI — The 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that it is not a violation of constitutional rights if police break down a citizen’s door, search the home, and confiscate firearms, so long that they believe it is in the citizen’s best interest.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...es/#more-81912

I can't read the article right now but if true.......

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Holy SHIT!

MILWAUKEE, WI — The 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that it is not a violation of constitutional rights if police break down a citizen’s door, search the home, and confiscate firearms, so long that they believe it is in the citizen’s best interest.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...es/#more-81912

I can't read the article right now but if true.......

[NC_DAVE]

That article seems to leave some information out of the story. I am sure she was already placed under a secure custody order by her doctor. So that is why she was taken into custody. This is a clear example of why these calls suck. If law enforcement never had a suicidal subject call again things would be better. But until people can handle there own families without breaking the law themselves I doubt that will happen. I guess family and friends could just chain crazies and depressed people up in the basement. That way no cop could ever be involved. Or hey just hang,shot,jump,walk in front of xyz, it is all good no lawsuits because the cops refused to act.

So say your mother calls her doctor whom she already visits for mental health issues and says I wanna die, I am going to kill myself, ect..... That doctor swears out a custody order with a magistrate to force her to get another evaluation at a facility. We'll contact is made with dear old mom, she says everything is ok. Sweat everybody leaves high fives with some ass smacks. Mom watches everyone drive off then places a bag over her head and pulls zip ties tight. Loving son finds her 4 days later covered in shit and insects. Well who should son file his lawsuit against. Let me guess those mean oppressive cops. By the way I have seen people kill them self in just about every way imaginable from the above, hanging, gunshot, jump, poison, cutting of ones own throat( she actually lived), intended head on car crash, trains, the worst was a guy who hung himself and invited his 11 year old and 13 year old over to open Christmas presents just before he did. Yeah asking them question sucked. Sorry if that was a rant but there are almost never any good options with these matters.

[T2C]

This is a tough one. The ruling is 75 pages in length and there are several news articles about the incident, so there is a lot of information to sift through.

The fact that Sutterfield told her doctor she was suicidal puts police in a tough spot. Do they enter the house and try to save her or do they leave and risk her taking her own life?

Has anyone read any Wisconsin case law on a police officer's duty to act? If she was going to harm someone else, it's a given that the police are entering the house, but if she is alone and only intends to hurt herself do the police have a duty to act?

Mentioning suicide with a qualified medical professional believing you are capable of committing the act really puts police behind the eight ball.

[Denali]

However, since the court believed that the forced entry was done with Sutterfield’s best interests in mind, the circumstances were allowable under the 4th Amendment. Judge Rovner wrote, “There is no suggestion that (police) acted for any reason other than to protect Sutterfield from harm.”

Fascinating, absolutely fascinating, and if they were to shoot her dead(in her best interests)while desperately violating her sacred rights to save her at all costs, what then?

[T2C]

If Sutterfield took her own life, it would be a tragedy. Unless she was a threat to someone else, I can't understand the justification for forced entry.

[Moose-Knuckle]

The dead last ****ing thing I need is for any government entity to decide what is in my "best interest".

Godwin's Law in eight posts.

[Chameleox]

If Sutterfield took her own life, it would be a tragedy. Unless she was a threat to someone else, I can't understand the justification for forced entry.

And if she decides to act in such a way that forces police to shoot her, for her? Say, in a public space? It is, unfortunately, not that far of a stretch. It wasn't that long ago that we were asking for greater cooperation between mental health specialists and police in order to avoid suicide by cop and mental health precipitated active shooter events.

It's a fine line to walk between public safety and a person's right to privacy, and it definitely puts LEOs behind the 8. Here in WI, Chapter 51 is fairly limited as to who can do an emergency detention, and when the patient refuses to appear in a clinic or hospital, the list of who can go get them is even more limited as a matter of practicality.

In reading the court case, I'm not sure I would have spent as much time trying to make contact with Sutterfield at her door, absent other factors. Searching for the gun is a bit dicey, as is securing it so she can reclaim it (IIRC she could and did), but then again, so is leaving it possibly unsecured where a minor might find it. If this were a criminal case,the gun would have been tossed out. But this isn't a criminal case.

What I found interesting is that the court kinda did Sutterfield, and future plaintiffs a favor: the court indicated that the existing 4th amendment case law is vague when it comes to community caretaker actions by police. It also hinted that Chapter 51, and similar statutes nationwide, are similarly vague and could use some firming up with regards to scope and exigency. Sutterfield's argument was rejected because she relied on the 4th as it relates to search and seizure for traditional law enforcement purposes, not community caretaker.

My department deals with Chapter 51 daily. In one case, the patient had over 100 guns, which would have been left unsecured. Arrangements were made to have a family member hold onto them with the patient's consent. That option might not have been available to the officers.

[yellowfin]

The dead last ****ing thing I need is for any government entity to decide what is in my "best interest".

Yep, everything from determining what an insurance plan should cover to paying property taxes to send other people's kids to schools that do absolutely nothing to keep them from being worse off intellectually and functionally than every private alternative.