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Thread: Argument against key mod?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ View Post
    IMO the heat issue between KMR and Quad rails is not a material issue but a shape one. Quad raid are thicker and position your hand further away for the bore center line. As such it takes more time for the heat build up to reach your hand.
    Yes. You hand can feel the barrel warmth easier.

    Also there is more metal to heat up.
    The heat seems to be most pronounced around the barrel nut, so most shooters won't have their hand there anyway.

    Physically KMR, MLOK tube are not ever going to be as strong as quad, unless they have a significant materials upgrade. The physics of the matter is that the shape of the quad rail is more rigid in all directions than a tube with top rail.
    I'd guess that barrel flex and receiver flex will be an issue long before and hand guard rigidity would.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  2. #32
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    Key Mod or any other rail attachment set up has pretty much become a non-issue for my shooting / accessory needs. I pretty much only need small rail sections on the fore end of the rail. I don't run VFG's or similar, no hand stops, no lasers, no blenders, nada. Having attachment point options is not a negative, so other practical factors like weight, heat transfer / dissipation and durability are real. Of course other non-functional factors like aesthetics can weigh into the equation based on the individual users preference.

    Since I gain no advantage at this stage in my shooting from Key-Mod or M-Lok attachment features, I do consider weight, durability and heat transfer. I personally own an NSR equipped rifle and it is one of my frequent shooters at this time. I will say 110% that with my shooting volume of fire that rail gets too damn hot to handle at times without gloves. As far as durability looking at how the unit mounts to the weapon is key. Some are great for recreational rifles, some I would not chose to use for heavy critical use in prolonged environments and quite frankly there are others that I have not had the opportunity to try out for myself. Now if I look at the aesthetics aspect, I personally do not find the key-mod appealing. Even though I don't like the looks, it has not prevented me from running the NSR quite heavily. I will say that I have purchased several other rails since the NSR release and none have been key mod styled rails, however I do see the possibility of owning another one in the near future.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfhound86 View Post
    The point I'm trying to make is that if you are either going to be in class or combat and shooting enough to where heat becomes an issue wearing gloves should be a priority. It is unrealistic to think in an HD or similar type of defensive situation even for an LEO on duty, that one would need to fire enough round where heat would become an issue. Wearing gloves to train does not effect the way you operate the weapon without gloves. There are no negative aspects to wearing gloves. I think you are trying to compare wearing gloves in training to the same bad habits developed when competition shooters immediately unload their weapons after engaging targets. Practices like that can transfer into real world situations and can be harmful, not wearing gloves can not be compared to that. If you like key-mod and feel heat is an issue just wear gloves at the range, simple as that!!
    Yes, I understand that. And what I was trying to say is, if gloves are not part of ones norm. They will be a very easy thing to forget in the range bag, or leave at home when going to the range. And that would be where heat could feasibly be a problem. I understand its not the end of the world either way. But is still something to consider.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Key Mod or any other rail attachment set up has pretty much become a non-issue for my shooting / accessory needs. I pretty much only need small rail sections on the fore end of the rail. I don't run VFG's or similar, no hand stops, no lasers, no blenders, nada. Having attachment point options is not a negative, so other practical factors like weight, heat transfer / dissipation and durability are real. Of course other non-functional factors like aesthetics can weigh into the equation based on the individual users preference.

    Since I gain no advantage at this stage in my shooting from Key-Mod or M-Lok attachment features, I do consider weight, durability and heat transfer. I personally own an NSR equipped rifle and it is one of my frequent shooters at this time. I will say 110% that with my shooting volume of fire that rail gets too damn hot to handle at times without gloves. As far as durability looking at how the unit mounts to the weapon is key. Some are great for recreational rifles, some I would not chose to use for heavy critical use in prolonged environments and quite frankly there are others that I have not had the opportunity to try out for myself. Now if I look at the aesthetics aspect, I personally do not find the key-mod appealing. Even though I don't like the looks, it has not prevented me from running the NSR quite heavily. I will say that I have purchased several other rails since the NSR release and none have been key mod styled rails, however I do see the possibility of owning another one in the near future.
    Do you use polymer covers for your nsr?
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ View Post
    IMO the heat issue between KMR and Quad rails is not a material issue but a shape one. Quad raid are thicker and position your hand further away for the bore center line. As such it takes more time for the heat build up to reach your hand. Also there is more metal to heat up.
    Not sure why we keep fixating on the topic of Keymod vs. MLOK or any other design. Buy the one you like and the one that works for your needs and move on.
    This was/is my and my friends thinking as well. With quad rails acting as sort of a heat sink... kinda. Combine that with being further away from the barrel. And maybe there is some merit to it.

    Dunno about fixation, but it is a new product to the industry, so seems worth having a casual conversation amongst people with the same interest about

  6. #36
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    I concur, heat is a big issue firing more than about three mags rapidly... without covering the rails... you'll be forced to assume a "mag-well grip" ... which is retarded.

  7. #37
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    Like I said before and I'm only saying it again because it looks like some of you missed it but the following is being said from personal experience.


    I am only comparing these two rails since I just happened to shoot both of them this past week. I normally don't do mag dumps or just aimlessly pull the trigger to see how fast I can send a string of 10 rounds down the range but In this case, I wanted to see which rail would heat up faster. I only wanted to figure this out because the KMR is so damn lite and thin, I thought there was no way I could bare hand it while laying down a string of suppressive fire.

    After running 30 rounds doing 3 round bursts with a Centurion Arms C4 and a BCM KMR, much to my surprise, the C4 which is a quad rail was noticeably hotter than the KMR. I believe another 20 or so rounds would have made it uncomfortable to hold. The KMR got warm but no where near what the C4 did. I don't know how many more rounds would have made it uncomfortable but it definitely would have been a lot more than the C4.

    Another interesting piece to note is how much faster the KMR cooled off over the C4. I let both rifles sit on the bench for 5 minutes before touching them again. The C4 actually got to sit there a minute longer and it was still warm. The KMR on the other hand had completely cooled off. It felt like it hadn't been shot.

    Now I'm no science buff so I have no strong conclusion as to why this happened. I surely thought the extra material on the C4 would have kept the heat away from my hands better than the KMR but that obviously wasn't the case. Maybe its the magnesium in the KMR or maybe the greater number of openings let's the heat escape while the quad rail design of the C4 is absorbing more of that heat.

    I had my doubts before but I am now a KMR believer.



    Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obscenejesster View Post
    I can say from experience that my Centurion C4 heats up faster than my KMR. Maybe its the magnesium?

    Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7

    The specific heat capacity of Magnesium and Aluminum are pretty similar (and isn't the KMR 70% aluminum and 30% magnesium?) and the C4 is nearly twice as massive as as the KMR, so the KMR should actually be heating up quicker, assuming the amount of heat the KMR is subjected to from the barrel is the same as that of the C4.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obscenejesster View Post
    Like I said before and I'm only saying it again because it looks like some of you missed it but the following is being said from personal experience.


    I am only comparing these two rails since I just happened to shoot both of them this past week. I normally don't do mag dumps or just aimlessly pull the trigger to see how fast I can send a string of 10 rounds down the range but In this case, I wanted to see which rail would heat up faster. I only wanted to figure this out because the KMR is so damn lite and thin, I thought there was no way I could bare hand it while laying down a string of suppressive fire.

    After running 30 rounds doing 3 round bursts with a Centurion Arms C4 and a BCM KMR, much to my surprise, the C4 which is a quad rail was noticeably hotter than the KMR. I believe another 20 or so rounds would have made it uncomfortable to hold. The KMR got warm but no where near what the C4 did. I don't know how many more rounds would have made it uncomfortable but it definitely would have been a lot more than the C4.

    Another interesting piece to note is how much faster the KMR cooled off over the C4. I let both rifles sit on the bench for 5 minutes before touching them again. The C4 actually got to sit there a minute longer and it was still warm. The KMR on the other hand had completely cooled off. It felt like it hadn't been shot.

    Now I'm no science buff so I have no strong conclusion as to why this happened. I surely thought the extra material on the C4 would have kept the heat away from my hands better than the KMR but that obviously wasn't the case. Maybe its the magnesium in the KMR or maybe the greater number of openings let's the heat escape while the quad rail design of the C4 is absorbing more of that heat.

    I had my doubts before but I am now a KMR believer.



    Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7
    I've been thinking about this from a chemistry perspective.

    If we assume that the C4 and the KMR are subjected to the same amount of heat, the KMR should heat up quick because the specific heats between the Aluminium of the C4 and the Aluminum/Magnesium from the KMR are fairly similar, but the C4 is nearly twice as massive. Lets look at the math, assuming they are receiving the same amount of heat.

    Q=MxCxT.

    Q is the amount of heat, M is the mass in grams, C is the specific heat of the material and T is the change is temperature. It takes 1.020 Joules to heat up 1 gram of magnesium and 0.9 joules to heat up 1 gram of aluminum (these are the C values in the above equation). However, the C4 is nearly twice as massive as the KMR, so it would actually require more heat to change the temperature of the C4 than the KMR, due to sits size. But this is all assuming that they are receiving equal amounts of heat.

    So, if you are observing that the C4 is heating up quicker than the KMR, the KMR must be receiving less heat (maybe the it has a better ventilation system from the heat?).

    As to the KMR cooling down faster, that fits right in with the above. The KMR should be changing temperatures quicker because it is so less massive compared to the C4, thus it needs to lose less energy overall to drop in temperature.

    Sorry if this is a little long or unwarranted, I just figured I would offer up a perspective from a guy who has paid way too much for school :}

  10. #40
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    I just like the positive grip that 4 rails gives you.

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