Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 124

Thread: Argument against key mod?

  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    133
    Feedback Score
    0
    Here's a Brief History of the VIS-A5-KM:

    I start developing the KeyMod system during a project we (Vltor) had for the MARCORSYSCOM (Marine Corp Systems Command), when they first requested the development of a collapsible stock system for the M16A4 rifle, but instead of using a standard Carbine collapsible stock system, like the M4 Carbine, we developed an improved system called the “A5” buffer system. The “A5” stood for M16A5, thinking of the next evolution of the M16 series. The A5 utilized a M16A4 rifle spring and a medium length buffer and a slightly longer receiver extension. The internals of the buffer were slightly different than a conventional buffer, which almost totally eliminates bolt bounce and slowed the rate of fire. The A5 enhanced buffer system was a success for the Marines. The Marines discovered the A5 had better reliable, with accuracy increase over a standard M16A4 rifle and M4Carbine buffer system. It was even tested against the Army’s “H6” buffer system, which was just an enhanced M4 carbine recoil system. The A5 buffer system came out on top.

    Shortly after the A5 buffer systems development and release, MARCORSYSCOM came to Vltor with the request for an enhanced upper receiver group, which would allow a standard M16A4 barrel cluster to free-float, to achieve maximum accuracy. We offer them a specialized VIS (Versatile Interface Structure) a poly-lithic upper receiver assembly, which at that time worked similar to our CASV handguard system (with the elimination of permanent Picatinny Rails at the 3, 6, 9 o’clock positions). The VIS A5 (named like the recoil system) was a success with the Marines, they wanted to go to the next level of testing. So, they gave us a RFP (Request for Purchase) for the next evolution of the VIS A5. This lead to the VIS A5 KM (KeyMod) upper receiver assembly. The VIS A5 KM was a major achievement over the previous VIS A5 platform, because it eliminated the costly mounting points (pressed in threaded nut inserts) and individual screw and rail section. Plus by eliminating the “press nuts” and adding Key Slot type holes, brought down overall weight and increase ventilation. This system was a success with MARCORSYSCOM and today, testing still continues.

    The combination of the A5 buffer system and VIS-A5-KM would eventually become the M16A4 PIP (Product Improvement Package) kit. At first, MARCORSYSCOM envisioned hundreds of thousands of kits purchased, but the longer they tested, the more budget cuts they received. The last time I heard, they were still considering outfitting a few battalions, for long term testing. With the current administration, I doubt that is even possible. Only time will tell.

    Eric


    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    Pretty sure that's just a VIS-KM....and not sure why anybody in the .mil would want that?



    http://www.vltor.com/product/vis-km-...r-with-keymod/

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    487
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by ESK View Post
    Here's a Brief History of the VIS-A5-KM:
    Thank you Eric for the post, about what year did this testing begin?

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    171
    Feedback Score
    9 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by djegators View Post
    Before this gets too far off topic, can we return to discussing how the OP is arguing against a piece of equipment he has never even handled?
    You mean, how the OP was asking about a product he has never handled to be better informed. I'm sure you do, because if you had read the OP that would have been clear

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    171
    Feedback Score
    9 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by ESK View Post
    Here's a Brief History of the VIS-A5-KM:

    I start developing the KeyMod system during a project we (Vltor) had for the MARCORSYSCOM (Marine Corp Systems Command), when they first requested the development of a collapsible stock system for the M16A4 rifle, but instead of using a standard Carbine collapsible stock system, like the M4 Carbine, we developed an improved system called the “A5” buffer system. The “A5” stood for M16A5, thinking of the next evolution of the M16 series. The A5 utilized a M16A4 rifle spring and a medium length buffer and a slightly longer receiver extension. The internals of the buffer were slightly different than a conventional buffer, which almost totally eliminates bolt bounce and slowed the rate of fire. The A5 enhanced buffer system was a success for the Marines. The Marines discovered the A5 had better reliable, with accuracy increase over a standard M16A4 rifle and M4Carbine buffer system. It was even tested against the Army’s “H6” buffer system, which was just an enhanced M4 carbine recoil system. The A5 buffer system came out on top.

    Shortly after the A5 buffer systems development and release, MARCORSYSCOM came to Vltor with the request for an enhanced upper receiver group, which would allow a standard M16A4 barrel cluster to free-float, to achieve maximum accuracy. We offer them a specialized VIS (Versatile Interface Structure) a poly-lithic upper receiver assembly, which at that time worked similar to our CASV handguard system (with the elimination of permanent Picatinny Rails at the 3, 6, 9 o’clock positions). The VIS A5 (named like the recoil system) was a success with the Marines, they wanted to go to the next level of testing. So, they gave us a RFP (Request for Purchase) for the next evolution of the VIS A5. This lead to the VIS A5 KM (KeyMod) upper receiver assembly. The VIS A5 KM was a major achievement over the previous VIS A5 platform, because it eliminated the costly mounting points (pressed in threaded nut inserts) and individual screw and rail section. Plus by eliminating the “press nuts” and adding Key Slot type holes, brought down overall weight and increase ventilation. This system was a success with MARCORSYSCOM and today, testing still continues.

    The combination of the A5 buffer system and VIS-A5-KM would eventually become the M16A4 PIP (Product Improvement Package) kit. At first, MARCORSYSCOM envisioned hundreds of thousands of kits purchased, but the longer they tested, the more budget cuts they received. The last time I heard, they were still considering outfitting a few battalions, for long term testing. With the current administration, I doubt that is even possible. Only time will tell.

    Eric
    Interesting, thank you for sharing.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    133
    Feedback Score
    0
    A5 Program Time Line:

    1) A5 Buffer System, Development started in: January 2008.
    2) VIS-A5, Development started in: March 2011.
    3) VIS-A5-KM, Development started in October 2011.

    In between each program was one or more test sessions.

    Eric

    Quote Originally Posted by BTL BRN View Post
    Thank you Eric for the post, about what year did this testing begin?

  6. #66
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    8,217
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Obscenejesster View Post
    Have you thought about talking with someone about the fantasies you're having regarding someone breaking into your house?
    "It would be stupid for me to make that judgement for you, just as it would be stupid for you to judge my self defense needs. "

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    11,706
    Feedback Score
    43 (100%)
    I'll never understand why, with all of this testing and all of the good folks like JSantoro in Quantico we still end up with things like the OEM charging handle and ESS glasses. Now I know. ($$$$)

    Thanks ESK.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,571
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    I really enjoy my pws mk116 with its keymod setup. It's similar to nsr and kmr.

    Probably the main reason I bought this system. It's light, comfortable, and cools down insanely quick. Much quicker than my mid length armalite ever did.

    Attachment is simple. It Does require more hardware than 1913, but it's a good system. Solid, and light. When i pick up a quad rail system, I immediately feel like, "man I miss the key mod already."

    As far as support, I'd say that isn't really a good argument. We could make a list of what's out there already, and I can't come up with one thing that isn't avalible to fulfill mission requirement for just about every body. If it doesnt exist slap on a piece of 1913, and enjoy less weight.

    Something tells me Mr Kincel has more ideas coming down the pipe. Which I look forward to.

    M lok doesn't really appeal to me. I can't see any advantages over keymod. If strength of attachment with plastic accessories is an issue for other than covers, which I don't feel is really needed. On the heat argument, When will you blaze through more than 5 mags in mag dump style back to back non stop other than playing Rambo at the range?

    I've never been in a gun fight, but if that much suppressive fire was needed,I would probably want to move and not be there. Otherwise the heat argument isn't an issue.

    I prefer the keymod for now. Run your rail flavor of choice. There aren't any bad ones.
    Last edited by cbx; 05-24-14 at 13:27.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    NoVa
    Posts
    2,906
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    SYSCOM was cheating on you... They had entertained a number of competitor systems.
    Right now it seems the USMC is having some internal conflicts about the M4 vs the M16, and exactly what upgrades need to be done.

    As last discussion
    Collapsible stock
    Improved Trigger
    Ambo features
    FF Rail
    FF M203 mount

    Flip Front Sight and Longer rail have been one path explored.

    Like the Army however we where forced into 1913 rail versions (cause you know you need 149 or so 1913 slots...)

    Our (KAC) 2014 weapons products are all Keymod, with the exception of the Army, USMC, and USAF M110 SASS.



    I notice some folks are mentioning you still need rail -- you don't, KM is a system that actually reduces weight via attachments -- the issue is many folks do not have KM adapters to direct mount certain accessories yet.
    Kevin S. Boland
    Manager, Federal Sales
    FN America, LLC
    Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 407-451-4544 | Fax: 703.288.4505
    www.fnhusa.com

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    94
    Feedback Score
    0
    Regarding the original post...

    IMHO, Keymods (along with the M-LOK system) are just like Gas Pistons compared to the DI system; solutions looking for a problem.

    I find the Quality rails like Daniel Defense to be light enough & strong enough for all of my applications & see no need to jump onto what might be another "fad".
    Last edited by Snipe315; 05-24-14 at 18:53.

Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •