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Thread: American Spirit Arms M4A3 carbine +++UPDATE+++

  1. #31
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    It would be interesting to know how many rounds have been fired through the barrel when the accuracy drops off and the barrel requires replacement.
    Train 2 Win

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano5326 View Post
    Holy dog crap, just end the dribble shill crap.

    -no one in US Mil is zeroing at 300m w/ m4's.
    It's simulated 300m at 25 meters and at actual range. Check FM3-22-9.

    5-2. ZEROING PROCEDURES; a. The purpose of battlesight zeroing is to align the sights with the weapon's barrel given standard issue ammunition. When this is accomplished correctly, the point of aim and point of impact are the same at a given range such as 250 meters for the M16A1 and 300 meters for the M16A2/A3/A4 and M4-series weapons. This sight setting provides the highest hit probability for most combat targets with minimum adjustment to the aiming point.
    Jorge

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano5326 View Post
    Holy dog poo, just end the dribble shill crap.

    -no one in US Mil is zeroing at 300m w/ m4's. WTF is "simulated" supposed to mean? Zero distance is zero distance. USA 25m USMC 36y
    You claim no one is doing it, so read for yourself.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...2-9/index.html



    Regarding the accuracy guarantee you can laugh as much as you want. Wilson Combat and Les Baer for instance do give such guarantee as well.

    WC:

    1 MOA or 2 MOA accuracy guarantees are based on the rifles
    ability to place 3 consecutive shots (center to center) into the
    guaranteed group size from a distance of 100 yards by at least
    one of the following ammunition types. This is based on an
    experienced shooter using a 10x or higher power optic, shoot
    ing from a double sandbag benchrest on a calm day.

    Federal Gold Metal 69gr HPBT Match
    Federal Premium 55gr HPBT Match
    Winchester 53gr HP
    Hornady 55gr V-Max
    Hornady 53gr HP Match
    Black Hills 52gr BTHP Match
    Black Hills 68gr BTHP Match
    Black Hills 69gr HPBT Match
    Remington 62gr HP Match

    Handloads:
    24.5gr AA2460, 69gr Sierra HPBT Match* or 68gr Hornady BTHP
    24.5gr Win 748, 69gr Sierra HPBT Match or 68gr Hornady BTHP
    26gr Win 748, 52gr Hornady BTHP Match*

    For CQB training ammunition we recommend the Federal
    American Eagle 55gr FMJ load.

    *We have found these two loads to be extremely accurate in
    our carbines.
    Les Baer:

    Rifles are guaranteed to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards.
    Again, very doable under ideal conditions.
    Last edited by JJEH; 05-26-14 at 10:48.
    Jorge

  4. #34
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    I respect your opinion. And thank you for sharing your experience as a SME.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dano5326 View Post

    Have the best day ever!
    Likewise!
    Last edited by JJEH; 05-26-14 at 11:16.
    Jorge

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJEH View Post
    Gentlemen, please don't twist my words around. I said she's zeroing her issued rifle at (simulated) 300m with shorter barrel and iron sights. I did not say she's shooting 1MOA at that range!
    So my assumption that your comment was in any sort of context was false. If that comment about your wife wasn't meant to support the topic being discussed at the time (the 1 moa guarantee), why mention it out of the blue?

    Further I said that a 1" group at 100yds - under ideal conditions - is no BS!
    It can be BS, assuming again you're still talking about ASA barrels. The vast majority of barrels will never shoot consistently 1 moa, regardless of a rock solid 500 lb shooting vice, meticulously selected and QC'd ammo, no wind, 20x optics, a 1 lb trigger, etc. As shooting is randomness stacking on randomness, even a terrible load through a terrible barrel with a terrible shooter will, extremely rarely, print a touching group at significant range. But that does not make the barrel a 1 MOA barrel any more than hitting par once while golfing makes you a zero handicap golfer.

    Now if your "ideal conditions" does not include ASA barrels... What are you talking about? Just throwing statements out there without any sort of context? Yes, 1 MOA AR barrels and shooters exist. That's so obviously true that saying it out loud is a bit pointless, so I assumed you were logically using your responses to support your previous statements. If that was in error, I apologize for unintentionally carrying on a regular conversation.
    Last edited by Koshinn; 05-26-14 at 12:53.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    If that was in error, I apologize for unintentionally carrying on a regular conversation.
    No need to apologize Koshinn. In fact, I want to take the opportunity to apologize in case my prior postings were misleading.

    From your point of view, what makes a barrel a 1MOA barrel?
    Jorge

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJEH View Post
    No need to apologize Koshinn. In fact, I want to take the opportunity to apologize in case my prior postings were misleading.

    From your point of view, what makes a barrel a 1MOA barrel?
    10-shot, MOA-or-less groups from a reasonable platform (i.e., NOT a 500lb rest, but a smaller rest/bag set-up or a bipod on a bipod-mat would be valid) using match ammo shot by a human being through a magnified optic.

    ASA barrels will not do this. I doubt they'd even do it in a giant, non-moving, mechanical rest.

  8. #38
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    In the future it would be wise to recognize that SME's are just that. This thread smells like an attempt to prop up ASA and is slowly becoming a steaming pile of poo.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJEH View Post
    You claim no one is doing it, so read for yourself.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...2-9/index.html



    Regarding the accuracy guarantee you can laugh as much as you want. Wilson Combat and Les Baer for instance do give such guarantee as well.

    WC:



    Les Baer:



    Again, very doable under ideal conditions.



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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreadPirateMoyer View Post
    10-shot, MOA-or-less groups from a reasonable platform (i.e., NOT a 500lb rest, but a smaller rest/bag set-up or a bipod on a bipod-mat would be valid) using match ammo shot by a human being through a magnified optic.
    Thank you for your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This thread smells like an attempt to prop up ASA and is slowly becoming a steaming pile of poo.
    I'm not affiliated with ASA, they don't pay me money, I'm not getting free products, heck I'm not even a stocking dealer.

    We argue about barrel specs or rather ASA's 1MOA guarantee that some of you say is BS. I doubt that since there are so many factors that can mess up the perfect shot. According to the specs posted by ASA the barrels should very well hold up to the general idea of producing 1MOA groups.

    That's all!

    Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. That was not my intend.
    Last edited by JJEH; 05-26-14 at 14:32.
    Jorge

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