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Thread: 1st ID soldiers receive upgraded M4s

  1. #91
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    Anyone know the origin/manf of their new drop in full auto trigger mech?
    ColdBlue sends...
    (CB is David A. Lutz, Lt. Col. USMC (Ret'd) (1968-1991)
    Former (now retired) VP MilOps @ Knight's Armament Company (KAC) (1994-2012)
    "...if you can read this, thank a Teacher,
    if you are reading this in English, thank a Veteran..."

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldblue View Post
    Anyone know the origin/manf of their new drop in full auto trigger mech?
    It is the standard ambi safety that Colt makes and is offered on the 6920 SOCOM.

    They are being made by MSI and OG Technologies.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldblue View Post
    Anyone know the origin/manf of their new drop in full auto trigger mech?
    From a good source, I've been told that the "drop in trigger" is simply the original full auto trigger mechanism from the M16A1.
    Kind of hard to believe that with all the really fine after market trigger options developed over the last several years that none were apparently not tested or simply not considered. And in my mind, a "drop in" is a module not a bag of parts as is the M16A1 trigger mechanism--so I think they exaggerate here to make it sound some leap forward has been achieved via a new trigger mech.
    But what is appalling to me is that while these maintenance teams are replacing barrels during this field modification process, they are not also taking this most cost effective opportunity to install a free-float rail forend. So in the future, what ever new rail they may select or desire that also requires the barrel to be removed for installation, will have this "black mark" of cost and 3rd Echelon Maintenance labor required. This will probably kill any such FF forend, that ironically would be the perfect compliment to a new heavier barrel and improved ammunition--I mean don't they understand that this is a "system?"
    ColdBlue sends...
    (CB is David A. Lutz, Lt. Col. USMC (Ret'd) (1968-1991)
    Former (now retired) VP MilOps @ Knight's Armament Company (KAC) (1994-2012)
    "...if you can read this, thank a Teacher,
    if you are reading this in English, thank a Veteran..."

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldblue View Post
    From a good source, I've been told that the "drop in trigger" is simply the original full auto trigger mechanism from the M16A1.
    Kind of hard to believe that with all the really fine after market trigger options developed over the last several years that none were apparently not tested or simply not considered. And in my mind, a "drop in" is a module not a bag of parts as is the M16A1 trigger mechanism--so I think they exaggerate here to make it sound some leap forward has been achieved via a new trigger mech.
    But what is appalling to me is that while these maintenance teams are replacing barrels during this field modification process, they are not also taking this most cost effective opportunity to install a free-float rail forend. So in the future, what ever new rail they may select or desire that also requires the barrel to be removed for installation, will have this "black mark" of cost and 3rd Echelon Maintenance labor required. This will probably kill any such FF forend, that ironically would be the perfect compliment to a new heavier barrel and improved ammunition--I mean don't they understand that this is a "system?"
    It is possible that they could get a drop in rail system that uses the stabdard barrel nut.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    It is possible that they could get a drop in rail system that uses the stabdard barrel nut.
    The companies in the final down select for the free float rail system use different barrel nuts.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMR View Post
    The companies in the final down select for the free float rail system use different barrel nuts.
    Really? I knew the KAC one did but ADCOR has been pretty tight lipped on theirs.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  7. #97
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    Looking at the KPP for the rail it would be impossible to design a rail that did what they required and retain the old barrel nut.

    Some of the requirements where IMHO likely a typo - but when asked "it is what it is" was the answer...

    So yes apparently you really did need a rail that had rail that starts at the end of the upper on the sides, and was the same width as the RAS...
    and could mount a M26 Shotgun, and a bayonet, and...
    The Bayonet that will not work with the future Signature Reduction System (SRS) Program (Suppressor...)
    No one actually uses the M26 - especially not mounted.
    The M320A1 is best used with the StandAlone.

    So...


    Then

    Halfway thru the PIP, I think someone realized that
    1) Optics is running this Squad Common Optic program
    2) Night Vision is running FWS-I

    SCO and FWS-I do not fit on a M4A1 with fixed front sight...

    Of course it did take industry to point to the elephant.

    So your $1k SCO, and your 8k (ish) FWS-I won't work on your M4A1 upgrade gun...

    and make sure it has Picatinny rail...
    Kevin S. Boland
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    FN America, LLC
    Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 407-451-4544 | Fax: 703.288.4505
    www.fnhusa.com

  8. #98
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    You can mount an ACOG on an M4 with an Oasis thermal sight in front of it (I forget the names of the two models of their thermals that come in the Keyhole Suite that I had in Afghanistan) However you don't have enough room to mount a PEQ-15 on top as well (one can argue that the PEQ becomes redundant as the Oasis has a built in IR laser) I understand that there are many other optic/NVD/thermal options/ combinations out there, some that are impossible to run on a carbine. I found that on my SDMR I had just enough room to mount the other Oasis thermal in front of my USO 1.8-10 scope and clear the front sight post.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #99
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    Wouldn't it be hard to do any NV with a variable optic? I have no idea how small modern NV has become, but I am not a fan of bridging the gap and that would be pretty much the only way to run NV it seems to me, cause variables are long tube optics generally.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  10. #100
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    Some optics have a dovetail or other mounting interface on the objective or scopemount that the NV locks into. Others mount directly to the rail in front of the optic. You also have adapters that allow you to mount different types of NV/thermal to different types of optic.

    No knowledge on the specific programs Kevin mentioned, the SCO or the FWS-I, but mentioning a few options.

    An example of what we use in Norway:

    http://www.vinghog.com/vinghog/produ...ight-kn200250/
    http://www.rheinmetall-defence.de/de...apon_Sight.pdf

    We have a slightly smaller one for the HK417.
    Last edited by Arctic1; 05-27-14 at 11:54.
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

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