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Thread: M855A1 with H6 buffer?

  1. #41
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    The main reason they went for the "lead free" was the fact the Army got the EPA to fund R&D on the new round.

    The round is hot and extremely accurate. In use it is also very lethal.

    I found no issues with it not perfectly matching the ballistics of the 855. We are running Aimpoints and ACOGs and anyone with some training knows the BDC in the ACOG is not exact unless you are running M855 at sea-level on a 60 degree day with no wind.

    We had H buffers in our M4's and had no issues. With the upcoming M4A1 upgrade we are moving to the H2 so that should solve the any problems that may be out there.

    Curious to see the outcome of the H6 in this application.

    I would also go as far to say that the Armorer for this unit needs to get out of the MWR, make friends with the 3rd Shop guys, and get parts for these M4's. A leader on the line should not have to be resourcing parts for weapons. There is Guy for that.

    There is more wrong with these weapons than the Buffer weight.
    Ash Hess

    Government Sales Specialist at Knights Armament Company

    ahess@knightarmco.com

    Senior writer of TC 3-22.9 Rifle and Carbine
    US Army Master Marksmanship Instructor.
    Sionics Weapon Systems AR15 Armorer


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.S.Cavalryman View Post
    The round is hot and extremely accurate. In use it is also very lethal.
    What is your definition of "extremely accurate"?

    Extremely accurate, to me, means about .5 MOA out of a match grade barrel.

    Is it more lethal that M855? M193? Mk262? Mk318? ~62 gr bonded soft point ammo?
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  3. #43
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    It was printing consistent 2-2.5 MOA groups out of issued M4s which is trick with M855. We don't have match barrels so that was impossible to test.

    Effects on soft tissue and to the head are very different than M855, M193,and Mk262. I don't have experience with Mk318 to compare it to.

    Short range, 50meter and in, hits to head and upper torso are resulting in severe trauma. The copper jacket around the penetrator separates as advertised to create another wound channel or it shatters and creates fragments that dump all the energy into the tissue.

    It is also punching through barriers well at less than 150 meters.
    Ash Hess

    Government Sales Specialist at Knights Armament Company

    ahess@knightarmco.com

    Senior writer of TC 3-22.9 Rifle and Carbine
    US Army Master Marksmanship Instructor.
    Sionics Weapon Systems AR15 Armorer


  4. #44
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    Yeah... the bullet sounds like it does some good things. I can see it being a nice round if you're shooting at someone who is in a vehicle.

    The increased pressure and stress on the weapon troubles me.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.S.Cavalryman View Post
    The copper jacket around the penetrator separates as advertised to create another wound channel or it shatters and creates fragments that dump all the energy into the tissue.
    That's interesting... if it's fragmenting "as advertised", that treads a very fine line regarding the hague conventions. Specifically, if it was designed and intended to fragment versus incidentally fragmenting.

    If we're going to do that, why don't we just cut the crap and switch over to soft point rounds? They retain mass better and are thus actually more humane than fragmenting bullets, but they're obviously designed to do so which makes them a no-no.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #46
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    I was able to get the answers I needed, and there's no reason to keep the thread open. If you want to discuss the A1 round, go to the terminal ballistics section and contribute to the thread already in place.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    If we're going to do that, why don't we just cut the crap and switch over to soft point rounds? They retain mass better and are thus actually more humane than fragmenting bullets, but they're obviously designed to do so which makes them a no-no.
    It doesn't matter. The primary goal of the mental midgetry that oversaw this round was LEAD FREE. This projectile seems to work good considering that monumentally idiotic constraint.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  8. #48
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    How did the H6's work out?
    Ash Hess

    Government Sales Specialist at Knights Armament Company

    ahess@knightarmco.com

    Senior writer of TC 3-22.9 Rifle and Carbine
    US Army Master Marksmanship Instructor.
    Sionics Weapon Systems AR15 Armorer


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    It doesn't matter. The primary goal of the mental midgetry that oversaw this round was LEAD FREE. This projectile seems to work good considering that monumentally idiotic constraint.
    Be hard not to work good. Its a bullet made up of 2 seperate pieces held together by a copper jacket. Doesn't take a ton of velocity to cause the steel tip to break the jacket and seperate the jacket from the copper slug.

    Also as far as I remember the lead free was just a way to get funding to get the bullet made by ATK. I could also argue the best bullets out there are lead free *cough* Barnes TSX *cough* and a few other excellent all copper rounds.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 05-28-14 at 13:01.
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    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    I could also argue the best bullets out there are lead free *cough* Barnes TSX *cough* and a few other excellent all copper rounds.
    Those are boutique bullets with their own sets of ass aches.... Which reminds me... I wonder if these bullets cause the problems that Barnes bullets cause in some barrels.. with the excessive copper fouling.

    I couldn't quite tell if the bullet portion other than the penetrator is all copper. Or a copper core with gilding jacket. The sectioned round looks like one solid piece, but one of the pics said "copper core".
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

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