Progressive "Talking Points" About How To Sell Gun Control With Better Words...

[Koshinn]

Using that argument we'd have to ban cars and just about anything else. Everything comes with a risk. And getting rid of one "danger" will expose you to other dangers you wouldn't have been exposed to.

Not necessarilly. While other things have risks, cars come with a load of safety devices that will save your life involuntarilly. Furthermore, suicide by car is very low on the list of methods that are considered, and are similarly low on the list of actual types of suicide attempted/completed.

Furthermore, a far higher amount of people own cars and use them on a daily basis than guns. The idea that 1 gun owned in America = 1 individual owns that gun is absurd - while some people do own 1 gun, the majority own 2 or more. Hell, I own something like 7, and I'm probably on the lower end of guns owned on this site. So the actual number of gun owners in this country is probably significantly lower than the number of car owners, and they're used more often.

I'm not saying ban anything with a risk, I'm talking about getting the low hanging fruit first, the best return on investment. And only regarding reducing suicides, guns are that low hanging fruit.

[SteyrAUG]

If we can agree that life is sacred and should be protected (off topic, but law-abiding peoples' lives have a higher precedence than law-breaking peoples' lives), then there is actually a pretty good argument for banning guns to reduce suicides.

Going to have to HEAVILY regulate prescription medication (more than it is now) and find some way of restricting pedestrian access to tall buildings and bridges.

Japan, with virtually no guns, still is a world leader when it comes to suicide. Currently in the worlds Top 10.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/.../#.U4zxf3aFsgs

The annual number of suicides in Japan has fallen below the 30,000 level for the first time in 15 years, the National Police Agency announced on Jan. 17. This is good news and praise should go to various efforts made by the central and local government and private-sector organizations.

But compared with other countries, the number of suicides in Japan is still high. Suicide-prevention efforts at all levels should not be slackened. Both the central and local governments should continue to push such measures as the training of personnel who can provide counseling for people who may be feeling suicidal, building suicide-prevention networks, and improvement of counseling and support for those who have attempted suicide as well as the bereaved families of suicide victims.

In 2012, 27,766 people killed themselves — a decrease of 2,885 or 9.4 percent from 2011 and falling to a level below 30,000 for the first time since 1997. From 1978, when the police started taking statistics on suicides, to 1997, the number of suicides was annually between 20,000 and 25,000. It topped 30,000 for the first time in 1998. The number of people who committed suicide rose sharply in March that year when the business year ended for most firms. The year before, significant numbers of small and medium-size enterprises began failing due to a credit crunch. Since then, the number stayed above 30,000 through 2011.

Despite the drop in suicides in 2012, the situation is still serious. The number translates into more than 70 people killing themselves a day or three people taking their lives every hour — much higher than the 0.5 deaths every hour caused by traffic accidents.

The number of suicides in Japan per 100,000 people is two to three times higher than it is in the United States and Britain. Among the eight developed countries, Japan’s suicide rate is the second highest after Russia. The tendency in Japan to regard suicide as a personal problem may have contributed to delaying necessary societal measures. In 2006, suprapartisan Diet members enacted the basic law to cope with questions related to suicide.

[jpmuscle]

Maybe if we advocated guns for illegals we'd be farther ahead of the curve.

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[yellowfin]

It is interesting and instructive as to how the anti gun people use complete bullshit to turn having absolutely the losing hand into what they have. How much further ahead would we be if we were more effective at similarly marketing, but using carefully chosen phrases and sales tactics with the truth? What if we weren't lazy and complacent, but actually had our stuff together and had our minds made up to wipe out their ideology from the face of the Earth just as much as they do to us?

Suppose that. Then WHAT IN THE FLAMING F*** HAVE WE BEEN DICKING AROUND WITH THESE PEOPLE FOR SO LONG INSTEAD OF SQUASHING THEM LIKE TERMITES?!???!?!?!? Seriously, when will someone apply the same Miracle Gro Give-a-F*** fertilizer to our side to wake up, play the game as hard as they do, AND WIN ONCE AND FOR ALL SO WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP WATCHING THEM????

[MountainRaven]

It is interesting and instructive as to how the anti gun people use complete bullshit to turn having absolutely the losing hand into what they have. How much further ahead would we be if we were more effective at similarly marketing, but using carefully chosen phrases and sales tactics with the truth? What if we weren't lazy and complacent, but actually had our stuff together and had our minds made up to wipe out their ideology from the face of the Earth just as much as they do to us?

Suppose that. Then WHAT IN THE FLAMING F*** HAVE WE BEEN DICKING AROUND WITH THESE PEOPLE FOR SO LONG INSTEAD OF SQUASHING THEM LIKE TERMITES?!???!?!?!? Seriously, when will someone apply the same Miracle Gro Give-a-F*** fertilizer to our side to wake up, play the game as hard as they do, AND WIN ONCE AND FOR ALL SO WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP WATCHING THEM????

One of the inherent flaws of the ideology of, "All I ask is to be left alone," is that it will inevitably become a victim of crusading ideologies. It's the only reason such a small group of people can keep such an issue at the forefront.

[SteyrAUG]

One of the inherent flaws of the ideology of, "All I ask is to be left alone," is that it will inevitably become a victim of crusading ideologies. It's the only reason such a small group of people can keep such an issue at the forefront.

It's not so much an ideology of "All I ask is to be left alone" but more of "Just as I want people to respect my freedoms, I will respect theirs and just as I don't want their views forced on me, I won't force mine on them."

Admittedly it can be a losing game at times. Couple that with a general unwillingness to engage in deception, misrepresentation and other things that run counter to most of our "values" system. It's a lot like your version of events vs. another persons version of events with no other evidence and the other person is willing to completely fabricate their side of the story. At best, you arrive at a stalemate.

We should remember that the 60s radicals got their foot in the door through a campaign of violence, hostage taking, property destruction and complete lies. These are the things they were willing to do to force their version of this country into reality. Most of us are unwilling to engage in any of these acts in order to save our country.

Even something LEGAL like two complete goobers in a fast food joint armed with long rifles gets criticized by all. People who took armed hostages at Cornell University became college professors and were able to make dramatic changes to the system. There are various vicious double standards at play.

[jpmuscle]

Or attorney general for that matter.....

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[ForTehNguyen]

I've seen some pretty objective evidence about this. Crime rates drop exactly 14 years (the time from birth to when young males tend to take up criminal activities) after lead is banned from gasoline and again (although slightly less pronounced) after lead is banned from paint.

actually it might have been abortion after Roe v Wade

[Honu]

If libs bring up suicide I just say please explain Japan to me

Cars ? Simple what kills more people cars or guns ?

Easy to blame things rather than people especially for libs who think criminals should have jobs teaching your kids !
Liberals think drugs can treat everything and think crime is something the victim causes

[Tzed250]

Going to have to HEAVILY regulate prescription medication (more than it is now) and find some way of restricting pedestrian access to tall buildings and bridges.

Japan, with virtually no guns, still is a world leader when it comes to suicide. Currently in the worlds Top 10.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/.../#.U4zxf3aFsgs

The annual number of suicides in Japan has fallen below the 30,000 level for the first time in 15 years, the National Police Agency announced on Jan. 17. This is good news and praise should go to various efforts made by the central and local government and private-sector organizations.

But compared with other countries, the number of suicides in Japan is still high. Suicide-prevention efforts at all levels should not be slackened. Both the central and local governments should continue to push such measures as the training of personnel who can provide counseling for people who may be feeling suicidal, building suicide-prevention networks, and improvement of counseling and support for those who have attempted suicide as well as the bereaved families of suicide victims.

In 2012, 27,766 people killed themselves — a decrease of 2,885 or 9.4 percent from 2011 and falling to a level below 30,000 for the first time since 1997. From 1978, when the police started taking statistics on suicides, to 1997, the number of suicides was annually between 20,000 and 25,000. It topped 30,000 for the first time in 1998. The number of people who committed suicide rose sharply in March that year when the business year ended for most firms. The year before, significant numbers of small and medium-size enterprises began failing due to a credit crunch. Since then, the number stayed above 30,000 through 2011.

Despite the drop in suicides in 2012, the situation is still serious. The number translates into more than 70 people killing themselves a day or three people taking their lives every hour — much higher than the 0.5 deaths every hour caused by traffic accidents.

The number of suicides in Japan per 100,000 people is two to three times higher than it is in the United States and Britain. Among the eight developed countries, Japan’s suicide rate is the second highest after Russia. The tendency in Japan to regard suicide as a personal problem may have contributed to delaying necessary societal measures. In 2006, suprapartisan Diet members enacted the basic law to cope with questions related to suicide.

Yep. A woman jumped to her death from this structure yesterday.


NRG bridge by zweitakt250, on Flickr