.357SIG vs .45ACP

[Perryguy]

Glock 21SF, easy to shoot and has 13+1 45 ACP! Hard to beat that combo. IMNSHO...

[TOrrock]

I know that VA State Police and Richmond, VA PD are very happy with the cartridge, Richmond had some fairly high profile shootings that were extremely successful after switching to the .357 SIG with a 125 gr. Speer Gold Dot.

Personally, I'm happy with 9mm +P 124 gr. Speer Gold Dot, but I buy my own ammo.

I like .45 ACP too....

As others have stated though, if you're not having to foot the ammo bill, there are a lot worse choices than .357 SIG.

[JollyRouge]

I have nothing against .357Sig and several of the local agencies use it to good effect. However, my stance in this battle is simple. A small bullet might expand. A big bullet will not contract.

[ToddG]

I have nothing against .357Sig and several of the local agencies use it to good effect. However, my stance in this battle is simple. A small bullet might expand. A big bullet will not contract.

If the .05" radial difference between an unexpanded 9mm and .45 means so much to you, though, why would you discount the substantially greater expanded diameter you'd get reliably from a modern 9mm JHP? The expanded 9mm JHP will be larger than the unexpanded .45 by twice as much (or more) than that 0.05" radius.

Every time I see that argument, I think: "My bicycle isn't as fast as your car, but it never runs out of gas!"

[Tspeis]

Delaware State Police have been using the P229 .357 SIG for quite some time now and from what's been relayed to me, they're quite happy with the platform. I love my P229R .357 and if I had to choose a work gun all over again, I'd choose the same.

In regards to ToddG's comments about the .357 Glocks, could the light weight of the frame be a contributing factor to the lack of controllability? It seems as though the weight of the P229R's aluminum frame absorbs much of the recoil whereas the Glock feels much snappier. Those were my observations when firing the two. Any thoughts?


Tspeis

[John_Wayne777]

Delaware State Police have been using the P229 .357 SIG for quite some time now and from what's been relayed to me, they're quite happy with the platform. I love my P229R .357 and if I had to choose a work gun all over again, I'd choose the same.

In regards to ToddG's comments about the .357 Glocks, could the light weight of the frame be a contributing factor to the lack of controllability? It seems as though the weight of the P229R's aluminum frame absorbs much of the recoil whereas the Glock feels much snappier. Those were my observations when firing the two. Any thoughts?


Tspeis

I believe that's part of it. My Glocks in .357 sig had probably the worst recoil of any handgun I've tried in a service caliber....as well as nasty muzzle flash, especially on the G32.

The Sig P229 is a much more controllable platform in that caliber, in my opinion....especially the steel framed "sport" version they had a while back.

[ToddG]

While I haven't fired one myself yet, multiple reports I've received from people who've tried the M&P357 say it is more controllable than the M&P40. That says to me it's much more controllable than the G31/32/33. (as an aside, I have a buddy who's both a federal agent and an IPSC GM who sold his G33 because it was "uncontrollable" ... clue!)

Somewhere I have a piece of paper lying around that shows the times I scored shooting a number of drills one afternoon with three different guns:

1. SIG P226ST-357 (all steel full size)
2. SIG P226R-357 (aluminum frame full size)
3. SIG P229R-357 (aluminum frame compact)

I was slightly faster with the all-steel gun than the P229R. I was substantially faster with the P229R than the P226R. There's more to it than just weight.

[DocGKR]

Looks to me like .357 Sig terminal performance is similar to all the other service pistol calibers...

Is the .357 Sig bad? NO! It is a very reliably performing 9mm bullet, but it is does not offer significantly better terminal performance compared with the best current 9mm ammunition.

When firing through heavy clothing, automotive steel panels, automobile windshield glass, interior wall segments, exterior wall segments, and plywood, both the .357 Sig Speer 125 gr JHP Gold Dot and 9mm Speer 124 gr +P JHP Gold Dot exhibited nearly identical penetration and expansion results THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENT BARRIERS, as demonstrated by both our testing and that of the FBI. Several .40 S&W and .45 ACP loads offered superior terminal performance through barriers compared to the 9mm and .357 Sig loads.

Looking at 2 separate FBI tests of 357 Sig 125 gr Gold Dot compared to 3 different FBI tests of 9 mm 124 gr Gold Dot shows that the results are basically the same in terms of expansion and penetration depths. In the steel testing, two of the 9mm's penetrated slightly deeper than the 357 Sig's--one 9mm expanded better, one the same, one slightly less. There was around 100-200 f/s or so velocity difference between the 9mm's and .357 Sig's, depending on which barrel lengths and lots were compared. As far as I can tell, terminal performance between the two calibers is roughly equivalent, with a slight edge to the 357 Sig because of its more consistent performance.

The .357 Sig is not a bad cartridge, it just does not seem to offer anything that is not already available, at the price of less ammunition capacity than the similarly performing 9mm, as well as having greater recoil, muzzle flash, and wear on the weapon compared to other service pistol cartridges--not to mention the increased ammunition cost and decreased availability...

[GLOCKMASTER]

Over the years we have carried the 9mm, .40 and now the .357 SIG. Based on my experience over the last 20 years the .357 SIG stops them better than anything we have used to date. It also has been the most consistent round for us when it comes to stopping BG's.

Since we started carrying the .357 SIG we have had only one person survive a shooting. He will ride around in a two wheeler the rest of his life .

[Heavy Metal]

I would wager that has more to do with better performing modern hollowpoints than any inherent superiority of the .357 sig.

What was the timeframe your departemnt was using the 9mm and 40 and what were your duty loads?

What are your current duty loads in .357 sig?