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Senior Member
So... what, take the kids away from the parentst and put them into the foster system? Disallow people from having children if they don't meet an arbitrary intelligence standard? How are you going to fix unintelligent parents?Originally Posted by hatt
"I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein
Banned
I bet we can figure out a middle ground that doesn't involve foster homes or zombie kids. When I said intelligence I meant parenting intelligence. Higher IQ folks are in no way immune from being absolutely retarded parents. Probably even more likely since they attempt to reason with 6 year olds throwing a tantrum instead of applying discipline.
Member
It's not intelligence. I know plenty of parents who have raised great kids without being Ivy league grads or white collar professionals...
What you need is a parent(s) capable of loving their child, disciplining them when needed, being involved in their life, and recognizing it is their duty to raise their kids and not some government institution or program.
If you can't handle responsibility, you shouldn't have kids.
Last edited by skijunkie55; 06-12-14 at 10:38.
Senior Member
I agree that too many people believe that medication is the cure for ailments that are much deeper and more difficult than a mere pill can cure. But I can say with first hand experience, both using and observing those who use SSRIs, that they are not "powerful mind altering drugs". The issue for psychopathic behavior is not the medication, but the underlying cause that most common medications can't treat. SSRIs don't change people's perspectives or skew their grip on reality. At least for me and the people I know who have taken them, they alleviated feelings of depression and anxiety that we were fully aware were not right, but could not seem to find any other way to get rid of. Sometimes a slap in the face and a "quit your bitching, you whiny little prick!" can't cure depression.
Honestly, blaming the medication for school shootings is very similar to blaming gun ownership, and very hypocritical. First off, it's scapegoating; it's looking for that one cause that, if we were to take it away, would cure everything. Second, we have to consider how many people are on SSRIs and the extremely tiny percentage of percentage of those on them who commit violent crimes, it's taking exceptions and wanting to apply them to a universal principal. If some guy bought an AR-15 legally and then went and shot up a school, the anti-gunners would point out that if he was unable to buy that AR, he would never have shot up that school and therefore, NOBODY should be able to buy an AR because we just can't take the chance. We would be the first to be on that like white on rice: How many millions of ARs are bought legally and are never used in a crime? Why should a miniscule number of people be used to judge everybody else? But when it comes to medication, too many do the same thing. They point out that this person or that person was on medication and if he had not been able to get that medication, he would have never shot up the school, and believe that it's okay in this case to judge many by the crimes of the very few.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not.-Ben Franklin
there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.-Samwise Gamgee
Senior Member
just when I was almost convinced guns were the problem , now lord obama says it is the ammo! It is old news ssri aren't the best drugs pushed by our doctors.
Last edited by SteveS; 06-12-14 at 11:11.
Senior Member
Wow, that's terrible. So looking at Kehoe as an example; a 55yo male- if this happened today, media would report on this for months, exploiting an aspect like Teacher (Harte) and 3 Harte children all died. He's labeled a home grown terrorist or zealot of some sort. Other like minded assholes who live their lives online and in front of a TV would whiteness the exposure and see an outlet for an infamous opportunity. I have no doubt the frequency of prescribed meds to young kids cause issues with processing experiences that most can cope with normally, but I have to believe that the cultural / external factors are the leverage to cause them to make a decision to act.
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Matthew 10:28
Senior Member
I blame the food stockpiling at the buffet for making me fat!
Member
I'm of the opinion that the reason for our "mental health pandemic" has a lot to do with out society being one that has outlived it's purpose and defies our nature.
There is an alarming amount very vague, broad, and easily misdiagnosed mental illnesses that seem to be popping up every few years. The symptoms are things like; having lots of energy, struggling with homework, testing authority boundaries, talking too much, not talking enough, not being able to pay attention to long division for 90 minutes at a time, being able to pay too much attention to long division for longer than 90 minutes. What? Every kid, even the most well adjusted and disciplined, is going to do a few of those. Because they're kids, and because kids are supposed to be learning how to perform the survival skills they see their parents carry out. But it's much more convenient for parents to say "yeah, my kid has mild autism, so he can't really do that". Because that's a more acceptable excuse than saying to themselves, " Well, Johnny is out in the yard and it's nine at night. He's a really active kid but I/we need to start enforcing boundaries to make sure that he takes time to do his homework". Parenting...fvck that noise. You mean I have to talk to my kids? Ugh...
And the parents are necessarily "bad". By modern standards, most of the parents of the more well known shooters were doing it right. They lived in nicer neighborhoods, mom and dad worked, they had a nice nanny. What else is a parent supposed to do? Because once they're 5-6 years old, we drop our kids into an indoctrination camp. Seriously, it's eerie how many teaching methods at public schools mimic prison. Our kids that want to learn more, explore, try new things, use their hands to work on stuff, we tell them to sit in a small desk in an uncomfortable chair for 8 hours a day. And take some of that work home with you too, you have a book report due on Friday, and those TPS Reports due Monday. Get them good and accustomed to the slavery of debt and taxation. These parents don't have kids to survive and extend their bloodline, or because they want to be part of a new life. They do it because they see it on tv, they have been told "this is what you do". And they do it, then they put their kids into the same grinder that turned them into blank faced drones. Rinse. Repeat.
And if your boy isn't filling out profit matrices or analyzing sales data by fifth grade, don't worry. There's a pill for that. You birthed the little guy, now go ahead and let Uncle Sugar take over and finish molding him into a good worker.
I spend a good amount of time on farms lately. Not as much as some of you in the agricultural beltways, but as a guest. I see kids who are a behavioral psychologist's wet dream, all kinds of failures to adjust, but those kids THRIVE on the farms. They don't struggle with the manual labor associated with their own survival. They don't view killing an animal as a fun or exciting concept, nor is it dark and scary. It's just life. They know to listen to their parents because on the farm, if your dad yells "STOP!" there's probably a good reason and you don't want to find out what happens if you disobey. These kids are raising piglets and calf.
You mean to tell me those kids on the farm are all autistic or ADD/ADHD? They're not shooting anybody unless they have to. It's the kids who are ready to go get that sweet 9-5 and work under a little toad in a shitty suit, selling intangible items of no real value...those kids scare me.
Team Medic, Task Force Zangaro
"The Cat's Originals"
Senior Member
I've seen this repeated on multiple occasions, and I'm wondering if there's anything to back it up, or is this just a theory that you have?
You think we should restrict the 1st Amendment rights of Americans because of the actions of a tiny minority? That sounds vaguely familiar.
Senior Member
A very interesting perspective. A few snippets from School Violence Explained.
Children have certain behaviors that come naturally to them, instinctively one might say. If they are allowed to have a childhood that lets them vent and live through these instincts, they will develop into adults who are not unusually aggressive. But if adults make the child live in ways that go too much against these natural instincts, then the child retains its asocial and ferocious instincts into adult life, rather than living through them as a childhood stage of development. Adults then look adult and act adult but retain child instincts and behavior...
The more that a culture (mainly through public schools) anywhere in the world attempts to suppress mildly aggressive or simply physical behaviors that are peculiar to children and make them behave in adult ways that restrict them too greatly, the more likely we are to observe extremes of aggression breaking out and the more that aggressive instincts will be nurtured in adults. Giving drugs to children to suppress their activities and tendencies will tend to produce a greater tendency toward excessive violence, not simply or only by the physical aspects of the drugs but also by psychological reactions to the behavior control. The same outcome will come about by preventing boys from being boys, over-controlling rough and tumble play, overly suppressing taunts, fights, shoves, pushes, and rough sports. Children need the freedom to play with other children, to shout, to roughneck, and to play all kinds of games. They need the freedom to roam around on their own. They shouldn’t be prevented from learning how to shoot rifles or bows and arrows, if this appeals to them...
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