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Thread: How accurate would my rifle be at 400 yards with iron sights and M855?

  1. #11
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    How do you even see the target? I have a hard enough time at 100.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostdarva View Post
    First off I will not shop at a liberal store
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1tt3n5 View Post
    How do you even see the target? I have a hard enough time at 100.
    Indeed, my eyes would not even be able to see a 20" target at 400 yards!

  3. #13
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    That is impressive grouping. Well done! Until recently, my "comfort" distance with irons has been inside of 150 yards. In all my years of shooting I can't remember ever shooting a rifle beyond 150ish yards with irons, only magnified optics. Never even attempted it until a few months ago. Its a good feeling gaining some confidence with irons at longer range, so that relaxing feeling is pretty new to me as well. My last 36 meter zero session was with some overly hot 5.56 ammo, so I decided rather than do another zero at 36 meters with sane ammo I'd just jump right out to 300 meters and get things sorted. It wasn't easy without a spotter.



    I took this photo Monday and though it doesn't look nearly as pretty as yours I made a few sight adjustments as I was hitting left and low initially. I thought it might have been my trigger squeeze at first so I put a few more on the 12" x 20" steel to be sure. I started to pull it together eventually. Monday was quite breezy so some of the hits are questionable. I'm going to put a few more on the fresh painted steel tomorrow just to be sure.
    Last edited by JS-Maine; 06-19-14 at 20:02. Reason: target size

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    Wow , not sure how you even see that target with iron sights.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptmccain View Post
    Indeed, my eyes would not even be able to see a 20" target at 400 yards!
    Quote Originally Posted by K1tt3n5 View Post
    How do you even see the target? I have a hard enough time at 100.
    You only have to see to the front sight. That's what you focus on. You just bisect the target with the front sight. That's why the white-on-black background really helps. Even while focusing on the front sight you can still see the haze of the target centered behind the post. I will admit that I have better than 20/20 eyesight but it's most certainly not necessary. I saw port-hole wearing Marines bust out Echo targets at 500 yards all day long.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptmccain View Post
    You have demonstrated that all the fuss and bother we so often read from people agonizing over tight groups at hundreds of yards, spending thousands on upgraded everything and optics is a wonderful achievement, of course.

    But at the end of the day, putting that kind of spread into an 8" target at 400 yards is quite sufficient for combat accuracy.
    This is why I like this forum. Most forums would ignore the 400 yard distance and iron sights and M855 and compare it to their 26" match rifle's groups at 100 yards. I mean, that grouping is most certainly not "pretty". But I was hoping at least here some could see the combat accuracy of the AR15 with iron sights is pretty damn good. Bravo.

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-Maine View Post
    I took this photo Monday and though it doesn't look nearly as pretty as yours I made a few sight adjustments as I was hitting left and low initially. I thought it might have been my trigger squeeze at first so I put a few more on the 12" x 20" steel to be sure. I started to pull it together eventually. Monday was quite breezy so some of the hits are questionable. I'm going to put a few more on the fresh painted steel tomorrow just to be sure.
    Don't compare yourself. You're firing iron sights at 300 meters, the battle is already won. That is fantastic shooting, and I wish I had steel to ring at my range. I had a unique set of opportunities stemming from a PacDiv match that allowed me to get formal marksmanship training. Also remember, there was zero wind when I was shooting. When I say zero, I mean not even the weeds were blowing. At that point, it's just ballistics and math. The good shooters are guys like orkan (a member here), that can stare up at a blue sky with no clouds and make a 1000 meter wind call.

  5. #15
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    A long time ago, when I toted a musket and a cutlass, we qual'ed at 500 meters or 500 yards with irons. It was just different then - not better. But I do recall when we first got the M16A2's, we usually had no issues keeping most of the rounds inside 12-14 inches at 500 meters. If I remember correctly, Camp Hansen was a 500 yard range? It's only been 30 years, I don't remember which, meters or yards.

    I'm still pretty comfy with irons. I built up a M16A2 clone, but I used Magpul MOE rifle furniture. It's a lot of fun to shoot. My 25-year-old daughter calls it "Daddy's Olden Gun".

    Euro, what you need to do is have some more fun at that distance, then challenge some friends to a shoot. You with irons, them with a RDS, and earn yourself some beer money. Free beer always tastes the best.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Don't compare yourself. You're firing iron sights at 300 meters, the battle is already won. That is fantastic shooting, and I wish I had steel to ring at my range. I had a unique set of opportunities stemming from a PacDiv match that allowed me to get formal marksmanship training.
    Thanks for the input. The steel does help to know when you are at least getting hits. I'm new to the long distance stuff with irons so I grab onto whatever I can. No so much comparing as much as prospecting acheiveable goals as I intend to push the steel further out as I get more consistent and confident. I've been shooting m193 so I'm sure heavier projectiles are going to come into play at some point.

  7. #17
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    But but but . . . free float!

    Actually, this kind of performance is why I haven't dropped the coin to chop my FSP and put on a free float rail. I have never been a particularly good shot, but I loved the 500 meter line on the KD course. You've had time to dial in your dope, you're in a good solid prone, you've got all the time in the world . . . pew pew pew.

    Well done, Eurodriver! (Hell and as far as that goes, well done JS-Maine!) Now you need a dedicated 20" musket for long range iron sighted plinking. (So do I.)

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Again View Post
    But but but . . . free float!

    Actually, this kind of performance is why I haven't dropped the coin to chop my FSP and put on a free float rail. I have never been a particularly good shot, but I loved the 500 meter line on the KD course. You've had time to dial in your dope, you're in a good solid prone, you've got all the time in the world . . . pew pew pew.

    Well done, Eurodriver! (Hell and as far as that goes, well done JS-Maine!) Now you need a dedicated 20" musket for long range iron sighted plinking. (So do I.)
    Free Floating a barrel isn't necessary for combat accuracy. It's never been and exactly why standard issue M4's aren't free floated.

  9. #19
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    That is some fine shooting. I am grateful that while growing up, my dad would take us out to Mojave all the time, where we could safely shoot out past a mile where we'd stretch the legs on everything we could get our hands on- 22 rimfires, shotguns with slugs, varmint rifles, scoped deer rifles, iron sighted surplus rifles- It wasn't very formal, but it was a good learning experience. Aperture & post sights are fast and effective and my favorite type of iron sight. 600 yards or less? Don't stand out in the open and wave if we're a feudin'
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obscenejesster View Post
    Free Floating a barrel isn't necessary for combat accuracy. It's never been and exactly why standard issue M4's aren't free floated.
    Maybe I should have put a "sarcasm off" tag at the end of my post. I kind of thought that my second paragraph made that clear, but I've been obtuse before.

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