"Hypermilitarized police departments are more dangerous than whatever they fight."

[Irish]

All of the above clearly shows you don't know what you don't know. It might make you feel better to spout off about how you'd fix all those "perceived" problems. But your ideas are so far out of touch it's like listening to an 8th grader explain how to save the world from hunger.

Why not take the time to explain, what he doesn't know, rather than insulting him?

I think some of his suggestions are well grounded, and a few that need some work. As an example, AR's in trunks, which I don't think is very well thought, due to not knowing when you're gonna need that AR. From an appearance perspective, possibly, for the un-gun friendly PC public, but it's not realistic.

However, in a running gun fight in vehicles, with people who're shooting AK's at cops and citizens, you need that mother****in' AR now! This happened in Albuquerque, NM not long ago and is a prime example of why you might need that AR while driving. I don't know how to embed live leak videos so here's a link with lapel cam footage: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=69b_1391652971

[walkin' trails]

There are a lot of things wrong with the criticism of the so-called militarization of American LE. I will not go so far as to say that everything done by LE. is righteous, but the job is not an easy one. I have to sometimes wonder about some communities that acquire the armored vehicles and such, as they're probably more of a drain to the budget than a menace to the community. The paramilitary style uniforms, however, have some legitimate usefulness the bottom down shirts and leather Sam brownes of the 20th century are not the best, nor ever were for chasing crooks, staying cool, carrying all the crap a cop has to carry, etc. They still make nice dress uniforms, but that's about all. I am much more comfortable working in a sh****y environment in cargo pants and combat boots than in expensive wool trousers and button-down shirts with leather shoes or dress boots. And as far as the long guns being out of sight, insure that it's an officer safety issue if they're not as readily available as security allows them to be. As long as gang members are running around with AKs and the like, cops need their ling guns. Besides, an AR is a lot more accurate and controllable for the vast majority of cops than a 12 ga. I want police to be professional, but dimming them down to doorman status is not going to help. Anyway, while violent crime in America has decreased, the explosive nature of the threats LE faces have become more sophisticated and intense.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Why not take the time to explain, what he doesn't know, rather than insulting him?

I think some of his suggestions are well grounded, and a few that need some work. As an example, AR's in trunks, which I don't think is very well thought, due to not knowing when you're gonna need that AR. From an appearance perspective, possibly, for the un-gun friendly PC public, but it's not realistic.

However, in a running gun fight in vehicles, with people who're shooting AK's at cops and citizens, you need that mother****in' AR now! This happened in Albuquerque, NM not long ago and is a prime example of why you might need that AR while driving. I don't know how to embed live leak videos so here's a link with lapel cam footage: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=69b_1391652971

Dude, he invoked 'officer safety'- he even did it twice- the debate is now officially over.

All Black ninja, ACU, Crye gear- makes me laugh every time I see it in the urban environment, where what, 99.9% of SWAT attacks happen? You want urban camo? Wear a Fed-ex or UPS uniform and truck- you are now invisible. Unless you are running up on a meth lab out in the woods or doing an arrest on an Army base, Multicam isn't camouflage.

[Eurodriver]

Officer Safety

Sorry, but just because it makes your job safer doesn't mean it's automatically warranted. Where does it end? You want an M1 Abrams to do a traffic stop?

Fortunately, Sheriffs are elected and police chiefs are appointed by people who are elected. They tried dabbling into that BS around here and we sent the mayor packing. He wanted every single traffic violation to turn into a full-blown Chris Dorner pursuit, was shooting dogs at the rate of one per week, and used tasers as frequently as a teenager with a cell phone.

They have reverted back to soft armor underneath button up shirts, limited pursuits to forcible felonies, and tasers can only be used if the person is resisting with violence. Guess what? The sky hasn't fallen, no LEOs have been killed (or even shot) since the new policy has taken effect and other departments are following suit.

You'd think we haven't learned anything from Iraq or Afghanistan...

[PD Sgt.]

Why not take the time to explain, what he doesn't know, rather than insulting him?

I think some of his suggestions are well grounded, and a few that need some work.

Possibly because he started out with "po-po" which most of us find a bit insulting, if not immature.

That is the end of my gas on the fire.

The problems with some of the "solutions" offered. First, as chief, you do not have the time to lock the heels of every officer you feel too "gung ho" (which is pretty subjective). You have a chain and sergeants that work for you to address your vision. If they are not doing it adequately, you are failing in communicating your ideals. This will apply more to large departments, and to a lesser degree for smaller ones.

The danger in firing or disciplining based on complaints or perception is that it gives power over who polices them to the hoods. If they know they can get an officer removed or transferred based solely on allegations not substantiated by internal investigations, they will come in with baseless complaints until they get officers who are too scared to take action against them. The only one who wins in that situation are the crooks.

I agree with the "coperator" comment. Having said that, a professional tactical unit is a need nowadays. The tools, like all things, advance with technology, including combat. And when bullets are whizzing by, it is combat. That said, the guys who think they are Delta Gru 6 really do not get it. They may be tops on their own ladder, but not all ladders.

Weapons should not be sequestered to the least accessible part of the cruiser. They should be secured, and there can be SOPs regarding deployment, but you do not take away tools. It is a safety thing.

While I agree that the traditional police uniform is (generally) sharp, and what many of us grew up on, I can tell you it is also the least comfortable or efficient outfit for most of what we do. It may look good directing traffic, but for running, crawling around in houses that make hoarders look OCD, or a whole host of other duties, it is poor. Advances in fabrics, synthetics, even lighter weight nylon gunbelts are much more efficient, and reduce long term injury and back problems that plague many officers. Blousing boots, while I am not a fan myself, help keep the bugs out when you go into roach infested houses amongst other things.

Are MRAPs really needed, maybe, maybe not. I will say that mobile armor as cover has been used to evacuate pinned down officers and citizens numerous times. Again, it is not the technology, but the use of it.

[ABNAK]

Haha thats a good one.. I might use that next time this converstion topic comes up with friends

Can't claim rights to that. Saw it somewhere else. But yeah, it's fitting (to some).

[ABNAK]

[QUOTE=El Cid;1942361]

If I were chief of a local popo department I would immediately institute the following (funds allowing of course):


. So you'd have a policy that compromises officer safety by forcing them forcing them to wear reflective items on their uniforms? Nevernind the increased cost of dress type uniforms with regard to care and maintenance. And are you going to fund replacements every time a name tag or badge is ripped off and lost/broken during a scuffle?



. This is beyond fracking stupid... Again you're willing to sacrifice officer safety for appearance sake. The AR is more effective and easier to master than the shotgun. It's the way of the future for LE and for good reason. If people are freaked out by seeing them being carried by good guys or in cruisers... those fearful fools should get some psychological assistance. In an active shooter or a hundred other scenarios there won't be time to get anything from the trunk.



. I'm dying to hear your definition of gung ho. Especially since you plan to discipline officers over gossipy nonsense. You should get some leadership training before being put in charge of anyone.

All of the above clearly shows you don't know what you don't know. It might make you feel better to spout off about how you'd fix all those "perceived" problems. But your ideas are so far out of touch it's like listening to an 8th grader explain how to save the world from hunger.

Your juvenile response tells me who currently pays your paycheck. I'd expect no less. Grow up......things have been reformed before. 'Cause of course it's just perfect and peachy, right?

Oh, apparently "gung ho" strikes a chord.......

[Dienekes]

Frankly, what concerns me is that we draw our law enforcement, clergymen, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers from the general population. Always have, always will. At the risk of being hopelessly old fashioned I would submit that if the citizenry thinks that morals and ethics don't matter, eventually the rot will show up everywhere. In lots of countries, they don't need military gear. They'll just stick with the tried and true and beat you to death with sticks.

I spent 4 years in the military and another 22 as a federal LEO. NO institution has survived unscathed, and "trust me" is a joke. "Militarization" is just a symptom. Nowadays it's like a box of chocklits--I don't know what I'm going to get when I interact with authority.

When you've spent 40 plus years undermining your legitimacy and credibility, we all suffer.

[ST911]

MRAPs, militarization, the war on drugs, rifles and shotguns, po-po... It's all here. I predict that this thread doesn't survive the night. Therefore, this is the only warning.

[J-Dub]

You guys are on the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So "in the know", its cra cra!!!!


I tell you, I just wish I could be as righteous as john q. public, but I cant.....I wake up wearing a hobnail boot looking for someone to stomp out. I certainly don't just show up to work, and do my job. That's crazy talk..........

LOL

I've actually adopted a new form of L.E. tactic, I call it "laissez faire"......"whats that ma'am? he strangled you?....sounds like a personal problem to me...I don't want to oppress nobodies rights, and since this shit happens once a week to you...take a hint woman!" lol Or...."Come again sir? Someone stole from you????....."constitution"...have a nice day"....

lol people....