"Hypermilitarized police departments are more dangerous than whatever they fight."

[scooter22]

MRAPs, militarization, the war on drugs, rifles and shotguns, po-po... It's all here. I predict that this thread doesn't survive the night. Therefore, this is the only warning.

With all due respect, is there a reason why we can't discuss such things?

[J-Dub]

With all due respect, is there a reason why we can't discuss such things?

Tha man tryin to keep ya down!!!! Constitution! Freedom! Sovereign! Liberty!

[NoveskeFan]

Ive been in this field for six years, and have not personally met any officers that express disdain for "civillians" or vets. I acknowledge that bad officers exist...I wish they didnt, but you will always get people that overstep their limitations in all walks of life (but I get that its different when a cop does it and infringes on peoples freedoms). Back in the academy, we had an instructor that would always show a variation of the below speech. Maybe more officers should see it, or just remember that they put on the uniform and badge as a symbol of public trust to be fair and just.

[J-Dub]

Ive been in this field for six years, and have not personally met any officers that express distain for "civillians" or vets. I acknowledge that bad officers exist...I wish they didnt, but you will always get people that overstep their limitations in all walks of life (but I get that its different when a cop does it and infringes on peoples freedoms). Back in the academy, we had an instructor that would always show a variation of the below speech. Maybe more officers should see it, or just remember that they put on the uniform and badge as a symbol of public trust to be fair and just.

Dude that cant be right, Alex Jones said we's in a Police State.

p.s. I worked 16hrs today and didn't break out my hypermilitarizedpolicestatemkultra gear on anyone. Guess Im falling behind with the times....

[ST911]

With all due respect, is there a reason why we can't discuss such things?

Absolutely discuss the issues, observant of forum rules and decorum, and enjoy the discourse.

[NoveskeFan]

Dude that cant be right, Alex Jones said we's in a Police State.

I'd be foolish to say I don’t see things through a different lens, or maybe I just hang out with like-minded officers. I definitely went through a great academy / great instructors. They recorded practicals (often as instigators) and showed us the results. It felt weird doing "real" traffic stops without a camera in your face.

[Irish]

Possibly because he started out with "po-po" which most of us find a bit insulting, if not immature.

I can understand that. But, we also have members here who have "popo" in their screen name.

The problems with some of the "solutions" offered. First, as chief, you do not have the time to lock the heels of every officer you feel too "gung ho" (which is pretty subjective). You have a chain and sergeants that work for you to address your vision. If they are not doing it adequately, you are failing in communicating your ideals. This will apply more to large departments, and to a lesser degree for smaller ones.

The danger in firing or disciplining based on complaints or perception is that it gives power over who polices them to the hoods. If they know they can get an officer removed or transferred based solely on allegations not substantiated by internal investigations, they will come in with baseless complaints until they get officers who are too scared to take action against them. The only one who wins in that situation are the crooks.

I agree with the "coperator" comment. Having said that, a professional tactical unit is a need nowadays. The tools, like all things, advance with technology, including combat. And when bullets are whizzing by, it is combat. That said, the guys who think they are Delta Gru 6 really do not get it. They may be tops on their own ladder, but not all ladders.

Weapons should not be sequestered to the least accessible part of the cruiser. They should be secured, and there can be SOPs regarding deployment, but you do not take away tools. It is a safety thing.

While I agree that the traditional police uniform is (generally) sharp, and what many of us grew up on, I can tell you it is also the least comfortable or efficient outfit for most of what we do. It may look good directing traffic, but for running, crawling around in houses that make hoarders look OCD, or a whole host of other duties, it is poor. Advances in fabrics, synthetics, even lighter weight nylon gunbelts are much more efficient, and reduce long term injury and back problems that plague many officers. Blousing boots, while I am not a fan myself, help keep the bugs out when you go into roach infested houses amongst other things.

Are MRAPs really needed, maybe, maybe not. I will say that mobile armor as cover has been used to evacuate pinned down officers and citizens numerous times. Again, it is not the technology, but the use of it.

Good stuff. Thanks for offering your perspective. Informative and educational for those not in the know.

[GotAmmo]

In before the mindless "nothing is wrong with police in this country, you guys are just police bashers" and the thread get closed down.

I just lol'd... cause it's true

[BoringGuy45]

One thing the gun community as a whole needs to stop is this extreme hostility to law enforcement. It is very counterproductive, and it alienates a big and influential community that is largely supportive of the 2nd Amendment. Cops are not the enemy. Part of being a law abiding citizen is respecting those who protect our communities and enforce the laws.

I'm no Kool Aid drinker. I recognize that law enforcement, being a position of power and authority, attracts a lot of people who give the rest a bad name. Yes, there are guys who are doing the job for no other reason than to legally bully people and cause chaos. There are cops who have some kind of obsessive compulsive personality disorder and have absolutely no grace, mercy, or empathy. There are hard charging ultra-type A cops who are complete control freaks and who fly off the handle at anyone who doesn't immediately cower and piss himself in the officer's presence. Contrary to popular belief, most other officers don't like these guys because they are just as big douche bags to deal with inside the station, and they make work harder for them out on the street. I also recognize that officers, even the good ones, can come off as cold and aloof to most non-LE people, but when you look at things like what happened in Las Vegas or Lakewood among thousands of other attempted ambushes and traffic stops gone bad, you can understand why. Everyone needs to call out dirty cops, and I am disappointed when officers still support them under the excuse of "I wasn't there so I can't judge" when it's very clear that the officer is question is in the wrong. But at the same time, we need to stop assuming that every call that ends with something other than everyone leaving happy and smiling must be because the officer either sucks at his job or is a dirty cop.

Now, do I think that every department in every state, county, city, town, borough, village, and federal needs their own SWAT team, MRAP, Predator drone, Abrams tank, nuclear missile submarine, etc? Of course not. I don't see why, for example, the Department of Education needs a tactical unit or even a law enforcement wing. But I do understand why the police are not the same as they were a hundred years ago. The FBI and police starting carrying Tommy Guns because The Chicago Outfit, Machine Gun Kelly, Bonnie and Clyde, and the other criminals of that time were using them. SWAT started because terrorism, hostage taking, and dangerous criminals were too much for your patrol officer to handle. Police academies and departments became more and more military-like because criminals became better armed, better organized, better trained, and better led. I don't know why anyone should have a fundamental problem with this. It's the same mentality we gun owners have: The bad guys aren't going to give up their guns, so our best response is to get better guns and better training ourselves. But when it comes to law enforcement, we suddenly turn into liberals, and start offering "being nice and polite" as the best response for a police officer trying to subdue a violent criminal.

We need to stop being antagonistic to law enforcement. The same way we don't want to be judged as a whole community just because of a few nuts shooting up a school, I don't think it's fair for us to judge the whole law enforcement because of a few bad eggs.

[scooter22]

One thing the gun community as a whole needs to stop is this extreme hostility to law enforcement. It is very counterproductive, and it alienates a big and influential community that is largely supportive of the 2nd Amendment. Cops are not the enemy. Part of being a law abiding citizen is respecting those who protect our communities and enforce the laws.

I'm no Kool Aid drinker. I recognize that law enforcement, being a position of power and authority, attracts a lot of people who give the rest a bad name. Yes, there are guys who are doing the the job for no other reason than to legally bully people and cause chaos. There are cops who have some kind of obsessive compulsive personality disorder and have absolutely no grace, mercy, or empathy. There are hard charging ultra-type A cops who are complete control freaks and who fly off the handle at anyone who doesn't immediately cower and piss himself in the officer's presence. Contrary to popular belief, most other officers don't like these guys because they are just as big douche bags to deal with inside the station, and they make work harder for them out on the street. I also recognize that officers, even the good ones, can come off as cold and aloof to most non-LE people, but when you look at things like what happened in Las Vegas or Lakewood among thousands of other attempted ambushes and traffic stops gone bad, you can understand why. Everyone needs to call out dirty cops, and I am disappointed when officers still support them under the excuse of "I wasn't there so I can't judge" when it's very clear that the officer is question is in the wrong. But at the same time, we need to stop assuming that every call that ends with something other than everyone leaving happy and smiling must be because the officer either sucks at his job or is a dirty cop.

Now, do I think that every department in every state, county, city, town, borough, village, and federal needs their own SWAT team, MRAP, Predator drone, Abrams tank, nuclear missile submarine, etc? Of course not. I don't see why, for example, the Department of Education needs a tactical unit or even a law enforcement wing. But I do understand why the police are not the same as they were a hundred years ago. The FBI and police starting carrying Tommy Guns because The Chicago Outfit, Machine Gun Kelly, Bonnie and Clyde, and the other criminals of that time were using them. SWAT started because terrorism, hostage taking, and dangerous criminals were too much for your patrol officer to handle. Police academies and departments became more and more military-like because criminals became better armed, better organized, better trained, and better led. I don't know why anyone should have a fundamental problem with this. It's the same mentality we gun owners have: The bad guys aren't going to give up their guns, so our best response is to get better guns and better training ourselves. But when it comes to law enforcement, we suddenly turn into liberals, and start offering "being nice and polite" as the best response for a police officer trying to subdue a violent criminal.

We need to stop being antagonistic to law enforcement. The same way we don't want to be judged as a whole community just because of a few nuts shooting up a school, I don't think it's fair for us to judge the whole law enforcement because of a few bad eggs.

Well stated.