White House petition to remove suppressors from the NFA list.

[tb-av]

I honestly can not understand how any of you can think Obama and/or his people don't know what the deal is with NFA items..... how can you possibly think that? Do you honestly think that he signed EO's, appointed a new director of ATF, they run guns in Mexico, they outlaw importing ammo,, seriously,,, what do think they don't know about? They more than likely know a hell of a lot more than most people that write a trust and apply for a stamp.... and their purpose in life is to find a way to end it all.

Do you honestly think they are going to talk about their plans? So if you don't hear the leaves rustling they are not there?

Granted the White House petitions are a bit of a joke, but realistically, just how many generations do you think you can sit this one out? In many regards, gun rights are like the character in the Tom Hanks movie Castaway... The supplies will never be available to build a proper boat. The Sea is never going to shift currents to a pattern that naturally takes the issue back home to where it started. Time however, will continue to chip away until gun rights are dead for all practical purposes.

It's one thing to say the time is not right today but to say they are unaware sounds like a serious underestimating of the enemy to me. They are ultra aware.. .that's why they attack the Constitution. You(plural) think "Sporter Clause" .. they think... SCOTUS and Constitution. They have been pretty damn good at keeping both on a short leash and time is on their side.

These people that start the petitions may not have all the answers but in many ways, the grass roots people that care and will act are what we need. The NRA may be powerful but it's clearly not the answer or things never would have gotten where they are. When the NRA becomes a Jesse Jackson for gun rights and you tell the little guy to stfu...... what they hell do you really want?

Since the 60's the people that want to smoke pot legally have succeeded. The people that want to stick a metal tube on the end of their gun have not. Now you tell me who doesn't know what's going on.

[hatt]

They shouldn't do ANYTHING to draw White House attention to NFA weapons. Some real dire unintended consequences are possible.

Really wish people would educate themselves on a subject before they start their stupid petitions because they are hoping to save $200. Last time around they were just trying to get rid of the CLEO requirement and it blew the trust issue up in everyone's face.

Yep. This is dumber than the people advocating national CCW. No way that'll backfire. If you want change you have to stop voting for people who don't hold your views. Even if it means the greater of two evils wins. When you vote lessor of two evils you lose even when you win.

[thei3ug]

What they know, what they don't know...
You don't go in to a strip club and start demanding they sell bibles at the door.
any whitehouse petition is a no win, a zero, for any gun rights. That's the best case. At worst you rile them up enough that they decide to take more punitive extralegal action.
What, you think it'll reach 100k and he'll say "oops, I was wrong?" It's an opportunity for them to have a one sided "dialogue," where they can point to groups organizing this and call them shills for the gun industry, and create statistics to showcase why they will never take action. All this because they OWN the petitions, and legitimize which ones support their agenda or bury the ones that don't. We chose the venue to pursue a legal change in an environment opposed to this legal change, and we chose the WRONG VENUE.

[jpmuscle]

Ffs atleast wait until the WH and congress turn red again, or least a lesser shade of purple.

[tb-av]

Yep. This is dumber than the people advocating national CCW. No way that'll backfire. If you want change you have to stop voting for people who don't hold your views. Even if it means the greater of two evils wins. When you vote lessor of two evils you lose even when you win.

Do what? ... We all voted... we were out voted... Gays didn't get marriage rights by controlling the vote count. Look at VA... we voted and won against Gay rights basically. New Dem Gov. who really should not have been elected, sorry, no, your past votes don;t count now... Gay rights it is...

I don't know if you realize it or not, but having the greater evil in control is an exponential process.... there comes a time you can't recover... You think you will ever be able to smoke a cigarette in a public building again? It sounds like some of you think you are going to live forever and you can just wait this out..... They have done all this in one life time. It doesn't get easier as time passes it gets harder, it gets worse. In another generation it will be like taking candy from a baby.

The people that hold your views are minimal in number and minimally effective. You often have to do business with people you don't like. It doesn't mean one of the two of you have to win 100% nor that you have to get married. Obama and his people are rabid in a cunning manner. Hillary is rabid and angry....... you better the **ck out when she gets elected and takes her anger at Bill, and Benghazi, and the pants suit comments,,,,,, then you will know the meaning of a woman scorned..... and women taught elephants how to not forget.

These people, these greater evil people, can not under any possible legal circumstance be allowed to continually control this county if you intend to live in an old America. If you want to live in Obama's New America ... well then just sit back... it's right around the corner. You are being ruled by arrogant criminals. If you want to give them more time by all means.... it's America and your right to do so. One day sooner than you think it will not be your America.

You don't go in to a strip club and start demanding they sell bibles at the door.

I agree, by the same token, if your desire and belief is to sell Bibles, you don't sit at home waiting for the phone to ring simply because you already have enough orders to get by in modest comfort when the greatest laws in the land say you should be living at a higher standard.

I think we all agree the WH petitions are a sham, another side show at the Obama circus, another distraction. How exactly do you expect to organize a country full of people to be on your side concerning NFA. The squeaky wheel has proven to be quite effective and I honestly don't know how it can be otherwise. You see what happened with that little band of NFA idiots that took it upon themselves to go it alone.

You have to educate and motivate. I don;t know any reasonable person that thinks a suppressor is dangerous. I don;t know any reasonably person that if they had SBR or SBS explained to them would think it makes sense to regulate them. ....but... good luck getting those people to vote with you when they have no idea what you are talking about. They will be educated by the MSM, and you know how that's going to go.

ETA: Have you ever watched a car race, motorcycle race, and there is a tech segment where the terms are explained to the viewer so they have a better understanding of what they are watching. Same should be happening for NFA. YouTube should be full of quality videos showing the ridiculous nature of NFA rules ... not in a manner to change peoples minds but simply show that this 14.5 gun is illegal without tax and this 16" one isn't.

That way when the MSM tries to thwart any serious change in our favor they will not be able to lie as easily. The public will already be educated. Especially with suppressors..... the general public has been made afraid of how many bullets come out of a gun at once. "Automatic".... they are not afraid of gun that isn't as loud..... yet they still in all these NRA years don't know what a suppressor does and why it's illegal without tax.

[hatt]

Do what? ... We all voted... we were out voted... Gays didn't get marriage rights by controlling the vote count. Look at VA... we voted and won against Gay rights basically. New Dem Gov. who really should not have been elected, sorry, no, your past votes don;t count now... Gay rights it is...

I don't know if you realize it or not, but having the greater evil in control is an exponential process.... there comes a time you can't recover... You think you will ever be able to smoke a cigarette in a public building again? It sounds like some of you think you are going to live forever and you can just wait this out..... They have done all this in one life time. It doesn't get easier as time passes it gets harder, it gets worse. In another generation it will be like taking candy from a baby.

The people that hold your views are minimal in number and minimally effective. You often have to do business with people you don't like. It doesn't mean one of the two of you have to win 100% nor that you have to get married. Obama and his people are rabid in a cunning manner. Hillary is rabid and angry....... you better the **ck out when she gets elected and takes her anger at Bill, and Benghazi, and the pants suit comments,,,,,, then you will know the meaning of a woman scorned..... and women taught elephants how to not forget.

These people, these greater evil people, can not under any possible legal circumstance be allowed to continually control this county if you intend to live in an old America. If you want to live in Obama's New America ... well then just sit back... it's right around the corner. You are being ruled by arrogant criminals. If you want to give them more time by all means.... it's America and your right to do so. One day sooner than you think it will not be your America.

Tell me how these lessor evil folks are going to help us? Same path, different pace. People are much more likely to "wake up" when they see the train is barreling out of control. We currently see the results of the leisurely pace we've been on the the last 100 years.

[SteyrAUG]

Since the 60's the people that want to smoke pot legally have succeeded. The people that want to stick a metal tube on the end of their gun have not. Now you tell me who doesn't know what's going on.

And at least the pot smokers knew when to make noise and when to shut up and fly under the radar. They knew which Presidents were going to be sympathetic to their cause and which Presidents were simply going to add another "pothead organization" to his target list.

Again, we've already made this mistake with the CLEO issue.

[alienb1212]

I think the argument boils down to "Is the system too far gone" or "can we still make a positive change"

I'm in belief that the former is the truth at this point. I think this will only bring negative things on the NFA owners.

[tb-av]

Tell me how these lessor evil folks are going to help us? Same path, different pace. People are much more likely to "wake up" when they see the train is barreling out of control. We currently see the results of the leisurely pace we've been on the the last 100 years.

1: Vote Evil - Get screwed,,, fast
2: Vote third party on POTUS level - Lose ... see 1 above
3: Vote lesser of evil
--- 3a. Win and rest and like you say, you will get screwed more slowly
--- 3b. Win and go on the attack. Obama has shown you play book. But there needs to be a role reversal. Get our generally passive guy in and I don't want to say turn on him, but keep his feet to the fire. All the while bring in local and State 3rd party type people that support your ideals.

You can't win the fight we are faced with from the top down because the Republican or Conservative voter is not organized in that manner. It's like conservatives are cats, you are only going to get so much out of them at any given time and they don;t always care to run with a pack. Liberals are like dogs. They can be trained and will develop a pack mentality.

If you wait until the people see the train it's too late. The Doppler effect. By the time you hear it, turn around to see it, you are being run over by it.

We are so far gone we now need to vote for a 'frog boiler' so we can regroup and buy some time to get some people in place.

And at least the pot smokers knew when to make noise and when to shut up and fly under the radar. They knew which Presidents were going to be sympathetic to their cause and which Presidents were simply going to add another "pothead organization" to his target list.

Again, we've already made this mistake with the CLEO issue.

Yes, but we don't have that luxury... We will die of old age before there is a POTUS that says 'ok, look, the NFA stuff is a bit over the top, the States should deal with that, Congress should get the Feds out of the firearms business' That's basically what Obama said about Pot. I don't care if you get Annie Oakley's great grandson as POTUS... that sentiment will never happen. Again it's like Castaway... there is no life raft, there is no current or favoring winds.... it has to be a fight.

I think the argument boils down to "Is the system too far gone" or "can we still make a positive change"

I'm in belief that the former is the truth at this point. I think this will only bring negative things on the NFA owners.

I'm sure you are not alone, the question is still, how long before it's all gone? You and me, one more generation maybe? I'm sure every Liberal in office would be very happy to hear that the opposition is a)without a plan, b)afraid to fight, and C)demoralized to the point that they are willing to simply enjoy whats left of the "good 'ole days".

The people that founded this country stayed in the fight. Well before the revolution. People landed here in VA survived disease and starvation, went back to England and then came back to the same place to give it another go. But when they went for round two and round three they didn't keep doing the same thing....

That's our problem... we get a guy elected knowing he is a 'frog boiler' and then we all go on vacation. 4 years later we say ok, I'll teach that 'frog boiler', I'll vote for the guaranteed loser.... brilliant! Let's play the lottery with the most powerful job in the free world.

We need to vote for the third guy when he can win, like the Cantor defeat. There were no choices... it was Cantor or the challenger.... so you have nothing to lose. Thus far we have not had that option in a POTUS election.

So that's why I say the lesser evil can be our friend if we keep it on a leash while we get some new systems in place. You let Hillary in and you better look out. That is one angry old woman and if she channels that pent up anger over Bill and Monica, the pants suit jokes, Benghazi, and her general hatred of Conservatives towards the gun owners it's going to really be bad. Any of you know a scorned woman that's ever forgotten about it?

As far as the NFA goes.... when you all see your rights going away when and how do you ever expect to get them back? Pretending that it will happen when the Republicans are in control is like saying when we get to Oz. There still needs to be an organized nationwide plan ready to put heavy pressure on the entire Republican force when and if they ever get control. I just don't think we can continue to play defense and expect to win anything and I believe it will have to be organized openly.

[alienb1212]

I'm under the firm belief in my lifetime we will see some kind of major, significant civil unrest in our country that will fundamentally transform it. I hope it's for the better, but I think we can all see where it's probably going to go.

I just see something like this being one more drop in the bucket that will eventually be overfilled and tipped over. The good people outnumber the bad, but they will take a LOT before they get pissed and rise up to fight for themselves.

The entire electoral system in our country is rigged. I believe in the idea of the system, not what it currently has turned into. I have a great deal of respect for the fact that you are still willing to fight, vote, and attempt to change things for the better. I don't think those efforts are wasted...but..I don't see them coming to fruition.

Our rights have been eroding for the past ~10 years at a very alarming rate. They will continue the downward spiral until the general population of "good" people wake up and decide they've had enough. One way or another, things will change. I think, however, they're going to get a LOT worse than they are now before that happens.