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Thread: Interesting article by Army SOF on MK18 use

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    Interesting article by Army SOF on MK18 use

    http://www.defensereview.com/tactica...sover-part-ii/

    Very interesting read. It basically covers the modern warfighter's trend toward shorter barrels, slicker hand guards and suppressors. After rereading all the benefits of 10.5 inch barrel, the DT MDR-C is looking even more appealing.
    Last edited by Tacti-square; 07-20-14 at 14:01.

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    That article just made me go from six to midnight.

    So, what’s changed my mind? Simple: SureFire suppressors!... I personally didn’t care for the KAC can (muzzle can, i.e., silencer/sound suppressor). The reason: shooting. I found there is an annoying amount of gas back-blast from the chamber area, and being a lefty, this goes right into my face while shooting.
    With the Surefire SOCOM556-RC can, there’s no real noticeable gas-blast increase
    . Additionally the round count that the SureFire can is rated to take is super high, so you can train with it and not worry about degrading its capability prior to using it on missions.
    I've shot suppressed once and the gas blow back was horrible, as a lefty. I decided it just wasn't worth it. Shooting suppressed wasn't fun for me.

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    While an interesting read, the benefits of this system specifically pertained to the MK18 Mod 1 package, not to what currently counts as a concept rifle a company wants to get into production. Each person who was using their MK18 or their older M4 platform had their buttstock swapped out to their preference and set at a variety of positions as well as having different pistol grips with different grip angles for more comfort and control in the package of choice. Also the slicker hand guards on those rifles still had the required accessories such as lights, lasers, and vfgs. The Surefire SOCOM suppressor sounds like a fantastic design, however it should be noted that the KAC suppressor is a one and a half decade old design. We know that Knights has not been resting on their laurels (no forward thinking company would). It would be interesting to compare a modern KAC suppressor to the Surefire SOCOM to see if the newer Knights design stacks up.

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    And let’s face facts: Even with the best long-range 5.56mm ammo (MK262 77gr.) and a 18-inch barrel (the now retired Special Purpose Rifle MK12) although you could reach out to 750 meters with that weapon/ammo combo platform, unless you achieved a head shot, the 5.56 round (5.56x45mm NATO) is pretty anemic in terms of one shot stopping power.
    Why is one shot stopping power important when the enemy is 700 yards away?

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    MOD EDIT

    The fella you're talking to fulfills or has fulfilled a similar role, and has his own grounds for his opinion.

    If you have specific questions as to why he holds the opinion he does, it might be a better idea (on turf where the only real decision you have to make is whether or not to post, NOT who does or does not rate a SME tag....) to ASK those questions. Particularly since he'd likely answer them...

    Spewing invective in a fit of pique, if you simply must have the catharsis, is perhaps better left to PM or email to the individual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Why is one shot stopping power important when the enemy is 700 yards away?
    It's kind of facetious, you don't get guaranteed one shot stops from 556 even at 3 yards. Not even with .308 at 3 yards.

    So I don't see the problem.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    It's kind of facetious, you don't get guaranteed one shot stops from 556 even at 3 yards. Not even with .308 at 3 yards.

    So I don't see the problem.
    Well, stopping power in general terms is a myth, however there are numerous cases of one shot stops with a variety of calibers. The Brit who took out a Machine gunner and his backup with a .338 Lapua at outstanding distances being off the top of my head. I sometimes wonder if when a person isn't expecting the shot and doesn't ever hear it, does he just bleed out or is it more along the lines of a marionette getting its strings cut.

    Also, I wouldn't consider the comment facetious, the author of the article may have had first hand experience with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorphCross View Post
    Well, stopping power in general terms is a myth, however there are numerous cases of one shot stops with a variety of calibers. The Brit who took out a Machine gunner and his backup with a .338 Lapua at outstanding distances being off the top of my head. I sometimes wonder if when a person isn't expecting the shot and doesn't ever hear it, does he just bleed out or is it more along the lines of a marionette getting its strings cut.

    Also, I wouldn't consider the comment facetious, the author of the article may have had first hand experience with this.
    Besides a CNS hit, you won't get a physiological one shot stop with any reasonable round. An example of an unreasonable round would be 30x113mm or 30x173mm.

    Even a lung or heart shot can give a person with enough adrenaline or drugs enough time to return fire a few times.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    Besides a CNS hit, you won't get a physiological one shot stop with any reasonable round. An example of an unreasonable round would be 30x113mm or 30x173mm.

    Even a lung or heart shot can give a person with enough adrenaline or drugs enough time to return fire a few times.
    But in the case of said 700 yard single shot, where does he return fire to? Believe me, i'm with you on close up defensive encounters, but when you combine suppression and a single supersonic crack... My only two guesses would be bleed out without medical aid and if it takes them a while to realize "Oh, hey what's this blood doing underneath me" it may be too late, or a quick follow up shot that speeds up the kill, in which case the one shot stop is disproved.
    Last edited by MorphCross; 07-20-14 at 04:40.

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    He is a vetted member and should he decide to divulge his background that's his prerogative. But, it's also not for you to question. He made several valid points and you can attempt to refute them if you would like.

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutchris View Post
    MOD EDIT

    The fella you're talking to fulfills or has fulfilled a similar role, and has his own grounds for his opinion.

    If you have specific questions as to why he holds the opinion he does, it might be a better idea (on turf where the only real decision you have to make is whether or not to post, NOT who does or does not rate a SME tag....) to ASK those questions. Particularly since he'd likely answer them...

    Spewing invective in a fit of pique, if you simply must have the catharsis, is perhaps better left to PM or email to the individual.



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