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Thread: Interesting article by Army SOF on MK18 use

  1. #31
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    The author outlined why the m4 isn't the "primary" weapon. Bigger and better weapons proliferate the battle field. Putting it into car terms: it's like using a 1/2" ratchet when an impact gun is available. Sure you CAN put tires on with a ratchet..... But every single person would choose an impact.

    Would I rather shoot, move, and communicate to destroy the Taliban? Or have a casual conversation with a pilot?

    On my deployment we definitely used air power as much as possible to avoid casualties.

    "warheads to foreheads" is the name of the game.

  2. #32
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    I liked the article. Im not agreeing with or disagreeing with anything the author says. He states that
    he sees interesting setups through his travels "over there" and he documents it. He states what he sees happening and what is popular with the men he serves along side. First hand expirience, and documentation from the field is what interests me. To me, this is no different than one of the other discussions a couple days back that had pics of men in Viet Nam with tricked out carbines, scopes on carry handles, setups that if someone came to the range with would get laughed at today. Yet they went to war, and did their jobs with what others would call inferior weapons. The setups the author depics is the same kind of thing, documenting men with weapons doing incredible things. Maybe some on this forum have weapons of better quality or ideas of what a better weapon is, but the ones pictured are their and are used everyday. I dont care if the one carbine has a Troy rail or a UTG bipod or whatever. What I learned is that items I thought were less than perfect are still viable even on todays battlefield. I thank the author for his opinions and first person views, and for the documentation of what is being used by US soldiers. The historian in me loves this stuff. Oh and to the comment Ive heard many times on diffent sites " not all SF types are gun guys", maybe its better they are not, for if they were nothing would get done until everyone had a KAC this, DD that, BCM this, Colt this and the gun could shoot 1,000 yards and weight 4.45 pounds with a loaded mag.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocalsocal View Post
    I love how a SOF member's load out can cause such a stir to a community of "gun guys". It's apparent that constant training and actual real world use can offset supposed deficiencies in gear selection. It's also eye opening, to me at least, that some hard core fellas are willing to duke it out and risk their lives as well as their buddies lives on equipment this forum has deemed "not worthy".


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    Ignorance is bliss? A good shooter with great tactics will make good use of Hi-Point. With that said, they are far better options available. I believe that is the point that you missed.





    C4

  4. #34
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    I was surprised to see so many of those rifles not having BUIS. I kind of figured that they would be mandatory or at least highly recommended.
    RLTW
    Danger Close Knows No Atheists.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker6 View Post
    I was surprised to see so many of those rifles not having BUIS. I kind of figured that they would be mandatory or at least highly recommended.
    From discussions with guys that actively train the HSLD crowd, that is pretty normal to see. What is also normal to see are optics that are mounted too high to co-witness.

    Some times "solutions" to problems leads to a balancing act of what is MOST important. In other words, how can I best put rounds on a threat without being seen or utilizing a piece of gear that will protect me from environmental issues.



    C4

  6. #36
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    My only comment is when I read "No Easy Day" (which is about the extent of my special forces experiance ) he said he was equipped with both a 10.5" hk416 with eotech and 14.5 with 2.5x10 I believe.

    He stated he used the 10.5" 99% of the time.

    He seemed to have spent a lot of time kicking in doors though.

    I'm dont quite get all the uproar. He acknowledged the inherent ballistic weakness of the shorter barrel and made and argument for why 10.5 are seen out there in wild despite it. Sure a lot of the pics are not of the best possible gear EVER.

    Bottom line seems like different tools for different job.

  7. #37
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    I didn't miss the point. Just an observation. I just thought that the guys on the tip of the spear would be using the stuff that we (or at least me) consider cutting edge, bomb proof equipment. No doubt there are better options but apparently the guys who roll with the author are either behind the times or satisfied with what they have. But like you said not all HSLD guys are "gun guys".

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocalsocal View Post
    I didn't miss the point. Just an observation. I just thought that the guys on the tip of the spear would be using the stuff that we (or at least me) consider cutting edge, bomb proof equipment. No doubt there are better options but apparently the guys who roll with the author are either behind the times or satisfied with what they have. But like you said not all HSLD guys are "gun guys".
    Gotcha, guess I was applying an inference that you didn't intend.
    No worries.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    I'm glad M4C is still M4C. I thought this thread was going to result in a bunch of cheerleaders backing the latest and greatest video game guns, given the suggestion made in the OP.

    Edit: Beat by F2S.
    Forgive me; a new rifle design comes along that looks promising, and suddenly I'm not allowed to show enthusiasm for it unless it's been adopted by 20 countries? To my knowledge the MDR is not featured in any game. Sorry for being excited about a cool platform, guess I'll only watch SHOT coverage that's 5+ years old from now on.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacti-square View Post
    Forgive me; a new rifle design comes along that looks promising, and suddenly I'm not allowed to show enthusiasm for it unless it's been adopted by 20 countries? To my knowledge the MDR is not featured in any game. Sorry for being excited about a cool platform, guess I'll only watch SHOT coverage that's 5+ years old from now on.
    We're not telling you not to be enthusiastic about an upcoming platform, you can feel however you want to feel about it. Just don't expect cheerleading from those of us who are skeptical about platforms that haven't reached any significant level of production especially if they lack vetting through testing in the military. We've seen what happened with the Masada, we've seen what happened with Kel-Tecs more recent designs, RobArm XCR could have, should have, would have. If the MDR end up being a commercial success, you can feel free to come on here and say "neener-neener-neener, I told you so" but until that time, respect our right to be skeptical.

    Back to the originally scheduled program.

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