Couric interviews Ginsberg

[montanadave]

Birth control is not healthcare.

But boner pills are?

[Caeser25]

But boner pills are?

Erectile dysfunction is a medical condition. You can't get pregnant falling down the steps or due to the onset of a medical condition.

[Honu]

for one the hobby lobby thing they are offering 17 out of 20 or something BC devices they just do not want to pay for the ones that give you abortions like the morning after ? and they are not stopping you from getting it elsewhere or anything else like you think and others have said !

lefty folks should LEARN nobody is stopping them from anything !!!!!! they just do not want to pay for abortions cause abortions are murder and are not a right !!!!!

so where is the line ? well 17 forms of birth control they offer there line is pills that cause death abortion or murdering of unborn children whatever you want to call it ! they made that very clear the problem is to many on the left have no moral compass so lying about the truth and facts is not a big deal and then folks like you come along eat up those lies without checking your lefty news and friends and keep spreading em like its the truth when its not

Sorry, but that's bullshit. An employer has no business meddling in the care provided by their health insurance providers. You're walking right into the trap Ginsberg spoke about. Your boss is a Jehovah's Witness? Sorry, no blood transfusion for your kid when he gets clipped on his bike. Maybe your boss is a Scientologist. Sorry, no antidepressants for your wife's post-partum depression or meds for your kid when he gets diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Maybe your boss is a Christian Scientist and tells you to pray your coronary arteries open when you have a heart attack.

Where's the line? Who makes the call? If an employer offers health insurance, it's part of a benefits package. It's part of your compensation. Your employer has no more business interfering with the care prescribed by your health care provider and paid for by a third-party insurer than they have telling you what you can spend your paycheck on.

[BBossman]

How is it that folks can afford to fill their homes with every electronic gadget, their garage with a new car every couple years, and $1500 rifles with $1000 optics can't pay for their own health care/insurance?

Just because you've mastered the complex art of turning oxygen into carbon dioxide doesn't mean others have to pay for your continuing to do so.

[tb-av]

Hobby Lobby covers some forms of birth control, the had a moral issue with some forms of it. Birth control is not healthcare.

I -think- the pills they objected to were the abortion type pills... so they weren't even objecting to contraception... I think it was more of a -are we assisting abortion- type deal for them. If you want insured contraception they give it to you, multiple options,,, but you screw up and then opt for an abortion pill, they say... fine do what you like but you pay for that....

Like Ginsberg, many see this as black white issue when in fact it's a morals issue for the employer. Everyone gets decent coverage with contraception AND they are not bound to work there no matter what. It's not like Hobby Lobby is such a specific job that one would not be suited to work elsewhere.

I agree that insurance companies are not in the business because they like people. They are in it for the money. The government is just as corrupt though. You can't simply tell the people that are creating jobs and basically doing right as best they can and as best suits their morals that they have to offer every little nit-picking item any given individual may want. No one made you go to them and ask for a job. If you were so desperate for a job and they gave you one but said ok, you get care and contraception but not abortion pills.... I don't know.. if it were me, I would say hell yeah, thank you!

I think many people look at their employers as a form of government that they have some right to control.... which I'm sure the government loves because then they just say... ok, we have a dependency situation in force here, let's take that business over or tax the piss out of it. It's successful, so let's profit from it.

This is different from a person that has a pre-existing condition. We all get things handed to us we don't want and it is sad that in the most powerful nation on earth that a person can become ill and through medical bills be completely destroyed in life and their family destroyed in death. We are not a little Jamestown colony struggling to survive.

I know someone that died last week. 44 years old. Came here from Germany. Worked hard. Built up multiple businesses but had an un-insurable heart condition. He helped revive part of a town in Kansas... bought an abandoned school. Built up another business. A brilliant man, an immigrant, an asset to America... yet his family he left behind is now in dire conditions. Even the best among us don't really have time to gather the funds and future security before the cards we are dealt need to be laid on the table. So something is clearly wrong with America.... but... you still can't force a company to do everything that someone dreams up. If the business is defective, someone else will open a better business or employees will go elsewhere, that's just basic capitalism. Someone can do down the street and open Crafts Lobby and offer the abortion pill.... if it were really that big of a deal.

... and if any one can honestly say that.... 'well now so and so will do "x" ' and expect this SCOTUS to rule in a certain manner.... well... maybe... but anyone that knows what this SCOTUS is doing must have a really nice crystal ball. Ginsgerd, to me, looks like a caricature of the most inflexible polarized people among us while claiming her opposition is blind and ignorant. How shallow and stupid is it for a supposedly 'deep thinker' to say... well another Judge stayed until he was 82 so I'll stay that long as well and be valid.

[tb-av]

[If] ! they made that very clear the problem is to many on the left have no moral compass so lying about the truth and facts is not a big deal and then folks like you come along eat up those lies without checking your lefty news and friends and keep spreading em like its the truth when its not

Oh you can bet your ass that the sound bites from that interview are going to be all over NBC come election time. Women vs men for one... the Dems need the Woman vote. rich vs poor... HL employees will be portrayed as under payed and poor. 10 seconds of lies and deception will rally a force of voters to the polls. Anything but facts and reason... can't have that.

[montanadave]

Look, I'm not going to be on the same page with a bunch of folks as we disagree on the provision of health care and, perhaps more importantly with respect to this particular case, the issue of abortion. That's OK.

My point is simply that once an employer agrees to include health insurance as part of their employee's compensation package, they should butt the **** out and let the employee and their health care provider make the decisions on which course of treatment is most effective for the patient.

And here's a final thought which should take this thread derail right over the cliff. Does anybody honestly believe if men where the ones that could get knocked up for enjoying sexual relations, with all the attendant medical, economic, and social consequences associated with pregnancy, we'd even be having this discussion?

[Moose-Knuckle]

Just because you've mastered the complex art of turning oxygen into carbon dioxide doesn't mean others have to pay for your continuing to do so.

That is sig line material right there, well played sir . . . well played.

[Moose-Knuckle]

And here's a final thought which should take this thread derail right over the cliff. Does anybody honestly believe if men where the ones that could get knocked up for enjoying sexual relations, with all the attendant medical, economic, and social consequences associated with pregnancy, we'd even be having this discussion?

Well that depends, are the majority of males that could get pregnant white? If so then yes, because they want to chemically castrate the white male populaton in order to curb the population growth of the evil white devil. It's social justice!

[tb-av]

My point is simply that once an employer agrees to include health insurance as part of their employee's compensation package, they should butt the **** out and let the employee and their health care provider make the decisions on which course of treatment is most effective for the patient.

It's quite possible though, that after Hobby Lobby formed it's company, chose a HC plan, gave it to employees. Then the FDA comes along and says... hey, we're going to ok this new abortion pill, it will be available on your HC plan. that's when HL would go,,, whoa... wait a minute... we are anti-abortion and that has been clear from day one to everyone that knows us. FDA to HL, sorry, sounds like a personal problem.

So they changed the rules on you after the fact and you feel you should not be able to approach the courts with the matter?


I've heard the argument "if this were about men?" before but they haven't cured prostate cancer, ED, and frankly a shorter average life span than women I believe... so... yes, If not this conversation, one of similar nature.