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Thread: ***DO NOT GIFT FUNDS ON PAYPAL***

  1. #21
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    Jan 2008
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    Just my $0.02 here on a couple of things … a few re-posted comments / PMs I have had with folks on this subject.

    All of my ads had essentially said the same thing ... from as far back as 2010 … "PayPal + Fees (no fees with family / friend / gift)". Prior to that my ads would say something to the effect of "Payment by discreet Paypal + 3.5% (preferred) or by USPS MO. CONUS only." I changed the wording not because I was asking to be paid as a gift, it was an option for the buyer and it really came about because many folks whined about having to pay the fees. I just put the "gift" option out there so people would stop asking.

    By the way … the way I used "DISCREET" was really to highlight to the buyer not to put any type of firearms related descriptions in the PayPal transaction space. It was not some code word for the gift option. Maybe others see it this way, but from here forth it will no longer matter as I have since gone and modified all my open "WTS / WTT" posts to scrub the gift option language / reference.

    As you can see, I am fairly active in the EE and have never had any negative feedback. I actually have about 2.5x more feedback than actual posts. Heck, if everyone I did a transaction with actually gave feedback when I did for them, my score would be even higher. I guess I finally found a way that the <200 posts issue finally hurt me, for if not for the buyer of my recent ad for the VP9 / P30 sights ( a repeat buyer from me) linking the original GD thread on the PayPal issue, I may have missed it entirely and wound up on the wrong side of the rules. I have been here since early 2008, and I guess lived well past the "read and learn, don't make stupid comments" suggestion. It is probably time to give back and get my posts up so I don't miss another GD thread or not have the ability to post in it (obviously the thread is now an open thread).

    My low post count was never intentional, but more a reality due to some or all of the following: i) employment related restrictions / desires on social media posts, ii) lack of additional time beyond employment, family, range and down time and iii) and the "learn before posting" thing.

    I will say however, I will comply with any rule changes that come about because I think M4Cs EE is one of the best run and self regulated exchanges out there. And I think it is one of the most under-rated features of the site.

    A well run and liquid market for used items allows people like myself to try new things, especially if not available locally, and sell them later if it does not work out. Plus the price is usually at a level that works for both the buyer and seller. I've had very few issues on either side of the transactions for either small or big ticket items. I can only hope that a flood of newbies does not change that any time soon.

    I will also try to post more "relevant" comments to help others out in the future and give back to the community from which I have learned so much from.

    I am however curious, as it would have been a self serving / correcting issue for me … why do original posts in the EE not count towards a members post count like on other sites? If that were the case I'd be well over the 200 mark by now?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by HackerF15E View Post
    I was under the impression that folks used the "gift" method on PayPal because of their policy about firearms-related transactions?

    https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/he...TIONS_US&m=TCI
    I got into this discussion on another site and NOBODY can point to anything in the Paypal policies that actually lists which gun parts and accessories they do allow. Everybody says it's in the policy, yet can't point to it...or they claim it's the same policy as Ebay, which isn't true regardless of the relationship of the companies.

    I'm under the impression that indeed people do use the gift payments to try to avoid trouble due to firearm related transactions. I did that, though now I'm re-evaluating.

    So is 'no PP gift payments or you're banned' the rule, and if so why not put that in the EE rules?

    ETA: I don't view gift payments for selling items as the evil that some do. Yes, it's violating terms in the Paypal policies depending on your interpretation, but you're also forgoing the protections that regular payments give both the buyer AND the seller...that's the tradeoff. I'm not saying this is justification for allowing gift payments, just giving my opinion. I'm personally OK with people using them if they evaluate the risks and know what they're getting into.
    Last edited by krichbaum; 08-23-14 at 17:34.

  3. #23
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    And now, I'll explain something I learned, which is also why I initially clicked on this thread. With a gift payment, you can't really file a Paypal dispute since it's just a gift and not a sale. But, if someone funds the gift payment with a credit card, they can dispute the charge on their card and then Paypal will either take the money from your account balance or otherwise try to collect it from you. There's no defending against this as proof of shipment and receipt doesn't matter...there was no sale transaction as far as Paypal is concerned. So as a seller you can easily be scammed by accepting a gift payment if it's from someone you don't know.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Bumping it up. If you read it, bump it too. Thanks.
    "I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
    than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."

  5. #25
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    May 2010
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    It is worth noting that gift or no gift you have little recourse if something goes sideways via Paypal. I have been told directly by Paypal if a seller sent me an empty box but could prove shipping (via tracking #) then not getting said item was my problem. Always use caution.

  6. #26
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by krichbaum View Post
    I got into this discussion on another site and NOBODY can point to anything in the Paypal policies that actually lists which gun parts and accessories they do allow. Everybody says it's in the policy, yet can't point to it...or they claim it's the same policy as Ebay, which isn't true regardless of the relationship of the companies.
    I don't know but this is what they told me.

    Under the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or
    receive payments for firearms or weapons, which include but are not limited
    to:
    Firearms - Includes all rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether they are
    intended for use in sporting, as collectibles, or as curio and relic
    firearms. These items are prohibited regardless of their present working
    order.

    Firearm parts - Includes, but is not limited to, receivers and frames,
    silencers, kits designed to convert a firearm to automatic firing
    capability, a magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds, multi-burst
    trigger activators and camouflaging firearm containers.

    Ammunition - Includes ammunition with propellant, such as gunpowder or
    blank ammunition. Ammunition is defined as ammunition or cartridge cases,
    primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for any firearm.

    PayPal allows transactions for paintball guns, blank guns, and air-soft
    guns as permitted by law in the applicable jurisdiction. These items must
    display all markings required by law, must not be convertible to shoot a
    lethal projectile, and must not include blank ammunition.

    You can view the complete PayPal Acceptable Use Policy by clicking the
    "Legal" link at the bottom of any PayPal page and clicking "PayPal
    Acceptable Use Policy". You can also find some more information on the
    PayPal Acceptable Use Policy on our Help Center.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double3 View Post
    I don't know but this is what they told me.

    Under the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or
    receive payments for firearms or weapons, which include but are not limited
    to:
    Firearms - Includes all rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether they are
    intended for use in sporting, as collectibles, or as curio and relic
    firearms. These items are prohibited regardless of their present working
    order.

    Firearm parts - Includes, but is not limited to, receivers and frames,
    silencers, kits designed to convert a firearm to automatic firing
    capability, a magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds, multi-burst
    trigger activators and camouflaging firearm containers.


    Ammunition - Includes ammunition with propellant, such as gunpowder or
    blank ammunition. Ammunition is defined as ammunition or cartridge cases,
    primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for any firearm.

    PayPal allows transactions for paintball guns, blank guns, and air-soft
    guns as permitted by law in the applicable jurisdiction. These items must
    display all markings required by law, must not be convertible to shoot a
    lethal projectile, and must not include blank ammunition.

    You can view the complete PayPal Acceptable Use Policy by clicking the
    "Legal" link at the bottom of any PayPal page and clicking "PayPal
    Acceptable Use Policy".
    You can also find some more information on the
    PayPal Acceptable Use Policy on our Help Center.

    It says you may not use Paypal to send or receive payment for the firearms parts listed, but it says the restriction "includes, but is not limited to". That means there are more things they don't allow, but didn't bother to list them. If you read the AUP, it doesn't provide the details either...at least it didn't the last time I read it. I keep seeing claims that it's ok to sell this gun part or that gun part and use Paypal for the payment, but when I ask where they got that info from the only answer I get is "go look at their policies!". There is a special reference to Ebay policy for Ebay transactions, but if you're not selling the part on Ebay then that doesn't apply. So I'm still waiting for someone to point me to it.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Ohio
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    What gun part could you be wondering about?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Wow, I just happened across a link to this in someone's listing. I put some stuff on the EE 3 or 4 days ago and listed gift as 1 of 3 options. In an effort to avoid being banned, should I take down the listings?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double3 View Post
    What gun part could you be wondering about?
    Any gun part they don't explicitly list. Since it isn't spelled out, everyone is just assuming. Just to name a few...
    barrels
    stocks
    sights
    triggers (semi auto)
    buffers
    lower parts kits (with semi auto fcg)
    grips
    muzzle devices

    Are those allowed? It doesn't say they aren't allowed, but since Paypal's list is qualified with 'includes but is not limited to'...how do you know? People keep claiming many of those items I listed are ok, but where are they getting this from?

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