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Thread: Hodge Defense--Best Carbine money can buy?

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by comprido View Post
    If someone's reputation is strong, disclosing how he received the product shouldn't be a big deal. Disclose it and move on. We (the readers) will take into account the reviewer's reputation when processing the information.
    Actually, that question doesn't even need to come up (which was Stick's point). When I ask for a trusted persons opinion on a gun, ammo gear, etc, I NEVER ask if they got it for free. Why? Because it is irrelevant. The truth will always be the truth.

    So you are just wasting everyones time with this line of questioning.



    C4

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Yeah it is. While Hodge doesn't offer anything at the moment that I really want, I can't ignore the amount of heavily experienced shooters who have praised it. I will definitely be watching the company and its products, especially since Jim has a presence here. That makes it even better. I don't know why everyone here loves to hate on new products.
    I haven't posted in this thread because I didn't know how to put my thoughts into words. You have done so perfectly. Thank you.

    I get that SMGLEE didn't post the standard M4C review. But in my opinion he doesn't have to .

    If Jeremy clarkason gets a free McLaren for 6 months and tells me it's good, I'm inclined to believe him because he has a reputation for being honest. SMGLEE is no different.
    Why do the loudest do the least?

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Really? All the stupid chit you read and this is what you grabs your attention?? You might want to re-read the thread again.

    Every quality AR manufacturer/armorer has tricks, trade secrets and dimensional changes to their products that makes their stuff better. Hodge Defense is no different. So if the owner does not want to give the public every single detail, then thats the way it is. Don't believe what is being said to you about the rifle? That is fine. Drive on and buy something that you feel is better.

    Read what I wrote again. Jim is a PROFESSIONAL weaponizer for uncle sugar. That means that he is and was paid for his knowledge on building fighting weapons for the best of the best. That right there should tell you that the guy knows all about "competent assembly."



    C4

    This thread reminds me a bit of when Nighthawk 1911s came out. The charged a premium for their guns in line with well known and established companies such as Wilson, which raised some eyebrows and led to some critical comments. On "other side" you had some BTDT 1911 people saying very positive things about the Nighthawk pistols and the people behind the company were known to have extensive experience and knowledge of 1911s. For many, Nighthawk had simply not existed long enough to justify the prices they charged, while others willing to give them a pass due some trusted names saying very positive things. That lead to some extensive discussions on the forums I recall similar to what's in this thread.

    For me personally, I was more in the former camp: I'd prefer to spend that kinda $$ on known entities of known track records, but was still interested in the pistols and eager to hear range reports and encouraged by the highly knowledgeable 1911 shooters positive reviews.

    I recall the company did have some growing pains which lead to some issues, but I don't recall what they were. Nighthawk I believe now viewed as an established entity by most. No idea how the company is currently viewed by the 1911 community currently.
    - Will

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  4. #224
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    M4C is a site that thrives on specifications and I think a lot of the skepticism is coming from the inconsistency between what was shown in this thread and what is shown on the official website under "Specifications."

    From the site:

    SPECIFICATIONS
    Upper & Lower Receivers Mil-spec,forged 7075 type III hard coat anodize, built to HDSI specifications
    Barrel 16", CHF, CL, 4150, Gov, MID, Micro Pinned GB, A2FH
    BCG M16, HPT, MPI, staked, 158 carpenter steel
    Fire Control Group ALG QMS
    Selector Reversible bar stock steel
    Handguard Geissele 13” SMR
    Charging Handle BCM / Vltor
    Buffer H2 or H (request only-H2)
    Receiver Extension 6 pos, Mil-spec, sling plate, Ambi HK or MASH
    Stock Magpul CTR, with enhanced butt pad
    Trigger Guard Magpul MOE
    Mag Catch Mil-Spec
    Bolt Catch Enhanced
    Forward Assit Bar Stock
    Pivot and take down pins Enhanced


    • The site lists Carpenter 158 for the bolt but in this thread it is stated that 9310 is used. Why not disclose that?
    • The site selectively lists certain high quality manufacturers' parts—Geissele FCG and SMR, Magpul stock, etc—but then specifically doesn't list other manufacturers' parts, keeping consumers in a retarded guessing game. (Who makes the barrel? Well, we all know it's a DD, as posted here by the owner. But consumers who haven't read this 10+ page specific thread? They have no idea. I personally think the site gives the impression as if it's made in-house. It needs to be clearer.)
    • Why not list that a Tapco endplate is used? I think it's obvious why, but again, just be honest here. Who cares?
    • The site gives the impression that the selector is made in-house. It's not. It's Badger Ordnance. Again, no problem. Why not list it?
    • A lot of other parts can appear as if they are made by Hodge but they are not: BCG, receiver extension, etc.
    • On the flip side, why not list that the forward assist or enhanced takedown pins are made in house? List what's special about those.

    The way it's currently written is forcing RKIs to do too much extra research if they're interested. And let's be honest, people buying this rifle ARE interested in all these little things.

    Not saying anyone is trying to purposely deceive but damn, for a company who prides themselves on "getting all the the little details right" they've managed to be pretty careless with a lot of this.

  5. #225
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    @Comprido:


    Quote Originally Posted by M4Guru View Post
    Here is another article on Hodge from the NRA.

    http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...8#/add2d3f8/10

    I'm not exactly impartial, as Jim is a close friend of mine. Not for nothing though, one of the reasons I like him so much is the way he approaches his business and products. I know how much thought and planning goes into every roll pin and detent spring to ensure they're the best available, even if a cut corner would have had little consequence. When we first met, I asked what was different about his rifles. There are the small details you'll feel a difference with...the perfect safety, the enhanced takedown pins, the enhanced billet bolt catch, and Jim's proprietary home-brew paintbrush-applied factory lubricant...when you handle the gun. But the answer was really, "I build every gun as perfect as possible out of the best parts I can get." I get that some people might not prefer certain features...I changed the grip and trigger on mine for a K2 and SD-E. But to compare the rifle in general to "something anyone could do better at home" is a plain fallacy. I joke with Jim and tell him the safety and takedown pins are as crisp and precise as my trigger, and stuff like that matters to me. After I got two rifles from a popular uber-manufacturer (in reality an assembler...like most) last year that were non-functional (one didn't have an indexing pin on the barrel and the brake was cross-threaded on the muzzle, the other wouldn't shoot 8" at 50 yards due to a grossly out of spec barrel), and I've grown to notice details and choose not to believe the hype these days. Like others in this thread, my personal gold standard for carbines is the KAC SR-15. I think it represents the best that our industry has done with the DI AR15's operating system and quality, due to the tremendous talent, institutional knowledge, and technology KAC has. I see what Hodge has in the cooker, and I see the potential for that level of innovation and excellence in other areas of the AR-pattern rifle, all from a 1 man show with a couple of helpers, and some friends he's made an impression on along the way.

    I wouldn't write Hodge off because of a forum post, or because a happy customer otherwise unrelated to the company took a picture with a porn star because he is that happy with his purchase (which I am grateful for). While I don't think anyone would disagree, this is my personal opinion and doesn't reflect the opinions of my employer, etc. etc. The MOD1 is greater than the sum of it's parts sitting in a box, and I've happily got the one I bought sitting here beside me. It's got thousands of rounds through it (10K+??), I don't keep track on my guns like I used to, but I'd say it's filthy to the point it can never be clean again. Mostly suppressed no less, and I've used it for high-volume testing and a host of other things I normally wouldn't volunteer my personal guns for, and it's still my go-to rifle. Many of my friends use them, many guys you folks would know through industry associations as well as some end users. Never an issue, never anything but boring reliability and accuracy. That's not free folks, as I'm sure on the other side of the coin we could all imagine (or more likely have seen in person) the end state of all these quality parts when a mongoloid assembles them on his kitchen table isn't always up to snuff. I'd encourage most folks that are not impressed at this point to dig a little deeper, or at least enter a holding pattern for the future. I'd be happy to chat with anyone to the degree that I can as a customer, but the man himself has opened up the invite a few posts up and I don't imagine anyone would find they wasted their time taking him up on it.
    Is M4Guru's input on this gun, and he owns one, not valid or interesting?
    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by comprido View Post

    the totality of the highly credible posters who have made positive comments --- Who here besides SMGLEE has even handled one of these rifles? Some people seem to know Hodge himself and vouch for him, but maybe I missed the other reviews from highly credible posters.

    (And maybe he spent $2k on the rifle. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.)
    First of all, I bought my gun, second, I have not done a review on anything in ages....so if someone want a person to shill, there are better people on line then me. Third, I am simply excited about this gun, and like to share it with people on M4c, fourthly....I don't consider myself anyone special.....as far as a place in the industry, I just think I am honored to know a lot of great people.

    As far as a SME that owns the rifle....did you read M4guru's reply?
    Quote Originally Posted by M4Guru View Post
    Here is another article on Hodge from the NRA.

    http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...8#/add2d3f8/10

    I'm not exactly impartial, as Jim is a close friend of mine. Not for nothing though, one of the reasons I like him so much is the way he approaches his business and products. I know how much thought and planning goes into every roll pin and detent spring to ensure they're the best available, even if a cut corner would have had little consequence. When we first met, I asked what was different about his rifles. There are the small details you'll feel a difference with...the perfect safety, the enhanced takedown pins, the enhanced billet bolt catch, and Jim's proprietary home-brew paintbrush-applied factory lubricant...when you handle the gun. But the answer was really, "I build every gun as perfect as possible out of the best parts I can get." I get that some people might not prefer certain features...I changed the grip and trigger on mine for a K2 and SD-E. But to compare the rifle in general to "something anyone could do better at home" is a plain fallacy. I joke with Jim and tell him the safety and takedown pins are as crisp and precise as my trigger, and stuff like that matters to me. After I got two rifles from a popular uber-manufacturer (in reality an assembler...like most) last year that were non-functional (one didn't have an indexing pin on the barrel and the brake was cross-threaded on the muzzle, the other wouldn't shoot 8" at 50 yards due to a grossly out of spec barrel), and I've grown to notice details and choose not to believe the hype these days. Like others in this thread, my personal gold standard for carbines is the KAC SR-15. I think it represents the best that our industry has done with the DI AR15's operating system and quality, due to the tremendous talent, institutional knowledge, and technology KAC has. I see what Hodge has in the cooker, and I see the potential for that level of innovation and excellence in other areas of the AR-pattern rifle, all from a 1 man show with a couple of helpers, and some friends he's made an impression on along the way.

    I wouldn't write Hodge off because of a forum post, or because a happy customer otherwise unrelated to the company took a picture with a porn star because he is that happy with his purchase (which I am grateful for). While I don't think anyone would disagree, this is my personal opinion and doesn't reflect the opinions of my employer, etc. etc. The MOD1 is greater than the sum of it's parts sitting in a box, and I've happily got the one I bought sitting here beside me. It's got thousands of rounds through it (10K+??), I don't keep track on my guns like I used to, but I'd say it's filthy to the point it can never be clean again. Mostly suppressed no less, and I've used it for high-volume testing and a host of other things I normally wouldn't volunteer my personal guns for, and it's still my go-to rifle. Many of my friends use them, many guys you folks would know through industry associations as well as some end users. Never an issue, never anything but boring reliability and accuracy. That's not free folks, as I'm sure on the other side of the coin we could all imagine (or more likely have seen in person) the end state of all these quality parts when a mongoloid assembles them on his kitchen table isn't always up to snuff. I'd encourage most folks that are not impressed at this point to dig a little deeper, or at least enter a holding pattern for the future. I'd be happy to chat with anyone to the degree that I can as a customer, but the man himself has opened up the invite a few posts up and I don't imagine anyone would find they wasted their time taking him up on it.

  7. #227
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    J chops go back to the the top of page 3 when the man himself chimes in and breaks things down for everyone. Specifically bolts since you seem to have an issue with that.
    Love you Pop. F*ck Cancer.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    @Comprido:




    Is M4Guru's input on this gun, and he owns one, not valid or interesting?
    I missed that the first time. It's valid and interesting. And I appreciate that he disclosed that he's friends with Hodge. That's the way to do it.
    Last edited by comprido; 08-23-14 at 19:29.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMGLee View Post
    First of all, I bought my gun, second, I have not done a review on anything in ages....so if someone want a person to shill, there are better people on line then me. Third, I am simply excited about this gun, and like to share it with people on M4c, fourthly....I don't consider myself anyone special.....as far as a place in the industry, I just think I am honored to know a lot of great people.
    Thanks. That's all I asked. It may not matter to some, but that you bought the rifle yourself does matter to me. It removes some of the skepticism I had about the original gushing review.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The biggest difference is that he has made some dimensional changes to the receivers.

    C4
    OK, the dimensional changes are proprietary. How do they improve the carbine?

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