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Thread: Hodge Defense--Best Carbine money can buy?

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMGLee View Post
    Why is it off base? I think it's relevant to the discussion as Hosge represent the same type of craftsmanship
    Probably because it would be more accurate to state that a Hodge rifle is like a Custom Corvette by a high performance tuner, a BCM/Colt/DD AR is like a stock base Corvette, and something like a SR15 would be a high performance factory 'Vette.

    The watch comparison of Casio to Rolex is also false. A Hodge rifle would be like custom top end Rolex for a high roller customer, a BCM/Colt/DD AR is like a base model Rolex, an SR15 would be a top end Rolex.

    Just my take on how to properly compare.

  2. #202
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    Of course Rolex, Ferrari, Porsche, etc, have been around more than a year. Bit of a track record, they have.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMGLee View Post




    Why is it off base? I think it's relevant to the discussion as Hosge represent the same type of craftsmanship
    'cause GTR is better than many/most Porsches for quite a few people who drove both. Sinn and Grand Seiko have the same quality of build in their top models as Rolex does while costing less and keeping better time. However you try, you can't dissociate craftsmanship, cost, performance and return on the investment.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMGLee View Post
    Why is it off base? I think it's relevant to the discussion as Hosge represent the same type of craftsmanship
    Common man.

    Let's start with Rolex being a company that's over 100 years old. That alone has given them ample time to build the reputation they have. I'm not aware of Hodge Defense having a 100+ year reputation.

    During that 100+ year timeline, they have brought countless innovations to market. They hold hundreds of patents for those designs. They spend tens of millions on R&D. They design & manufacture everything they produce in house, including ridiculously precise movements that are their own invention. They're consistently held accountable by independent parties and continue to win awards on all aspects of their company. Oh, and then there's this little thing that they've produced upwards of 50 million timepieces to date that have been and continue to be relied on in some of the world's toughest environments.

    They've also managed to build one of the world's most powerful brands. They employ thousands of people worldwide, not counting the countless others employed through their influence or market.

    You don't buy a Rolex for "fit and finish". You buy a Rolex because:

    1. It's one of the most historically significant companies in the world of horology. You're buying a piece of history.
    2. They have a 100+ year reputation of producing timepieces that have withstood the harshest conditions.
    3. Their reliability, design and durability have been documented and proven for over a century.
    4. Their precision and accuracy are independently verifiable and only matched by a handful of companies.
    5. They have unique patented designs and movements that cannot be reproduced (legally).
    6. Given their reputation, you have faith they'll be around for another 100 years to service it for as long as you can possibly own it.
    7. They increase in value over time, making them a good investment and/or heirloom.

    I could go on. But do I need to?

    I'm sure it's a fine rifle. I know I'd love to shoot one. But really, comparing it to global brands that have been around for decades, create entire economies, have brought countless innovations to market, etc…*is just disingenuous at best. It's a really poor analogy.

  5. #205
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    No.
    You buy a Rolex because you want a Rolex.

    You buy the firearms you want because you want them.

    If something strikes your fancy, and you can afford it, the decision is yours.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by comprido View Post
    I might have missed it but has anyone asked if SGMLEE bought the weapon or if he was given one to test and write about? (Fair question all the way around, and even more fair since SGMLEE seems to have one that isn't commercially available.)
    Sorry, but while in the minds of some internet people that may be important, I'll go ahead and call BS on the entire question. This isn't someone unknown making up crazy claims that the weapon can run at 8 million rpm on a swinging axis all while never needing lube for its self changing barrels.

    When you look at the totality of the highly credible posters who have made positive comments, you can either believe them or not. If you don't believe them, you are in the wrong place. How would it matter if the weapon was unpaid for? Is SMGLEE suddenly a shill? Does it mean he is a lying POS if he didn't? Is he a lying POS if the weapon goes back after 6 months? It is certainly what you are insinuating, which is why I'm making this comment.

    Again, we are talking about a known person who has been on the boards for years. Not a new flake who just popped up, in which case your question would have had merit.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  7. #207
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    I'm at the point where if I don't see an E3 bolt and barrel extension, my enthusiasm is fairly low for a new AR.

    Even Noveske is hard to justify the cost for what they're asking, and they have a long track record, custom receivers, custom rails, and in-house made SS barrels.

    I have no doubt the AR in this topic is a great quality AR, but it doesn't have anything innovative. It seems to be a very well made AR with off the shelf parts, at least for now. I hope his dealings with Alcoa bear fruit, that would be very interesting!
    Last edited by Koshinn; 08-23-14 at 17:04.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #208
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    This is such a bizarre thread.
    Last edited by TinyCrumb; 08-23-14 at 17:24. Reason: Not worth it

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyCrumb View Post
    Common man.

    Let's start with Rolex being a company that's over 100 years old. That alone has given them ample time to build the reputation they have. I'm not aware of Hodge Defense having a 100+ year reputation.

    During that 100+ year timeline, they have brought countless innovations to market. They hold hundreds of patents for those designs. They spend tens of millions on R&D. They design & manufacture everything they produce in house, including ridiculously precise movements that are their own invention. They're consistently held accountable by independent parties and continue to win awards on all aspects of their company. Oh, and then there's this little thing that they've produced upwards of 50 million timepieces to date that have been and continue to be relied on in some of the world's toughest environments.

    They've also managed to build one of the world's most powerful brands. They employ thousands of people worldwide, not counting the countless others employed through their influence or market.

    You don't buy a Rolex for "fit and finish". You buy a Rolex because:

    1. It's one of the most historically significant companies in the world of horology. You're buying a piece of history.
    2. They have a 100+ year reputation of producing timepieces that have withstood the harshest conditions.
    3. Their reliability, design and durability have been documented and proven for over a century.
    4. Their precision and accuracy are independently verifiable and only matched by a handful of companies.
    5. They have unique patented designs and movements that cannot be reproduced (legally).
    6. Given their reputation, you have faith they'll be around for another 100 years to service it for as long as you can possibly own it.
    7. They increase in value over time, making them a good investment and/or heirloom.

    I could go on. But do I need to?

    I'm sure it's a fine rifle. I know I'd love to shoot one. But really, comparing it to global brands that have been around for decades, create entire economies, have brought countless innovations to market, etc…*is just disingenuous at best. It's a really poor analogy.
    Those are very good reasons people want to buy a Rolex.

    Far more than "just because" (synonymous with striking fancy IMO)

  10. #210
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    There are a few things here that are relevant, yet seem to be overlooked or not accepted as relevant.
    The main thing I see is Context.
    For instance - a statement is made regarding "fit" - and a very highly regarded SME somewhere along the line has made a statement regarding this fit ("loose is good") this should be regarded within CONTEXT.
    Unless one understands what was meant by that, perhaps one is thinking like a consumer who conducts a lot of research, perhaps not as someone who builds or owns rifle with said (lack of) tolerances.
    It is not a blanket statement meant to apply to all AR rifles. Really.

    Then -it is not just the individual parts of the rifle, but the sum of them, combined with who installs them - an assembly line worker, or a skilled armorer, and the thought process designing the set-up.

    Then - You purchase reputation and the promise of it being something special. There are MANY examples abound for this.

    Then - one thing we really should be a bit respectful of - is when certain SME's weigh in. This does not mean drink cool-aid without question, but perhaps consider the source. Give respect where its due.
    Some of these people have forgotten more that I (we?) could wish to learn in a lifetime.
    Just because we can chime in and say, ..'well on M4C we question everything, its just how we do shit.." does not mean one should do so as a knee-jerk reaction - without thinking what is being questioned.

    Before we beat up too much on anything and anyone here lets review why LMT or Larue or Noveske or KAC or BCM or Centurion...(fill in the blanks) products cost a certain amount and maybe someone can tell me they are not worth it.

    This is not about scrounging the internet and scoring a good deal on some excellent parts and using that final product as a reference point, but someone consistently delivering a certain product which comes with a certain promise.

    Calling it the best? Don't know such a thing exists. Nobody said it was - read the OP - it was a question????? But price-wise it seems right with others calling themselves best that money can buy, don't see much excitement over those going on now....
    Per Ardua ad Astra.
    STS - gone but not forgotten.

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