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Thread: Hodge Defense--Best Carbine money can buy?

  1. #211
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    Some of you have issues with my analogy but maybe it has to do with my chinglish but I keep hammering home workmanship and attention to detail. I think some of you are taking my intention out of context.

    My point I was trying to get across in comparing Hodge defence to the like of a Porsche and GTR is because both goes just as fast but the stitching, the fit, the panel gaps are just that much more refine than the Nissan. You can see the quality and why it might cost double the cost of a GTR, but on paper, just looking at specs....you can make the assumption the GTR is very bit as good as a Porsche.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyCrumb View Post
    This is such a bizarre thread.
    Yeah it is. While Hodge doesn't offer anything at the moment that I really want, I can't ignore the amount of heavily experienced shooters who have praised it. I will definitely be watching the company and its products, especially since Jim has a presence here. That makes it even better. I don't know why everyone here loves to hate on new products.
    Sic semper tyrannis.

  3. #213
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    I'm not sure why everyone is getting butt hurt. Some of the well respected SME's here have stated that the gun isn't a gimmicky POS and is built well. Others have stated that besides that the "fit and finish" is beyond that of most members go to (lmt, colt, bcm, dd). If you want to pay a decent chunk of change more to have your rifle be more pretty then do it up. Nothing special, just a prettier well built gun. Personally I buy blem stuff so this doesn't do anything for me, but I'm poor as hell.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    Sorry, but while in the minds of some internet people that may be important, I'll go ahead and call BS on the entire question. This isn't someone unknown making up crazy claims that the weapon can run at 8 million rpm on a swinging axis all while never needing lube for its self changing barrels.

    When you look at the totality of the highly credible posters who have made positive comments, you can either believe them or not. If you don't believe them, you are in the wrong place. How would it matter if the weapon was unpaid for? Is SMGLEE suddenly a shill? Does it mean he is a lying POS if he didn't? Is he a lying POS if the weapon goes back after 6 months? It is certainly what you are insinuating, which is why I'm making this comment.

    Again, we are talking about a known person who has been on the boards for years. Not a new flake who just popped up, in which case your question would have had merit.
    You are wrong. Disclosing whether you got a product for free or were paid to endorse the product is obviously the ethically correct thing and most people understand that.

    Why does it matter? You know exactly why, but I'll spell it out anyway. If someone receives got a $2k rifle for free, he might be inclined (maybe just on a subconscious level) to say good things about the product. It's pretty flattering to be selected to be given a $2k rifle to use (and eventually review). That might creep into your review. It's not shilling, but it is worth taking into account.

    If someone is a bit more shady, he might consciously say good things about a product because he likes getting free stuff, and people tend not to give you free stuff if they think you are going to bad mouth them.

    Further, since we are calling BS, I'll call BS on you being someone in a position to respond to my question. (Since you yourself write reviews and take photos of gear, maybe this subject hits a little too close to home? You seem strangely upset that I even asked the question.)

    Regardless of how long SMGLEE has been on this board, it's a fair question. Longevity on a board doesn't mean someone is above shilling for a product, or more likely, that someone is immune to the psychology I talked about above.. He should disclose how he got a product that doesn't appear to be commercially available. If his reputation is above reproach, then it won't matter much. (I'll confess that I don't understand SMGLEEs place in the firearms world or why I'm supposed to think that he is above reproach and his opinion can't be questioned. I thought he was the fellow that goes to SHOT Show and takes pictures, and he also takes a bunch of tactical training classes.)

    the totality of the highly credible posters who have made positive comments --- Who here besides SMGLEE has even handled one of these rifles? Some people seem to know Hodge himself and vouch for him, but maybe I missed the other reviews from highly credible posters.

    (And maybe he spent $2k on the rifle. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.)
    Last edited by comprido; 08-23-14 at 18:00.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMGLee View Post
    Why is it off base? I think it's relevant to the discussion as Hosge represent the same type of craftsmanship
    To this is off base because you can not buy the parts to assemble a rolex or Ferrari and assemble it yourself. Everything to build this rifle can be purchased separately and assembled at home for 75% of the cost.

    Don't worry I am tracking with you on some of this. If you could buy the parts for a Ferrari or rolex the factory would do a better job assembling them. They have the special tools and facility to do it.

    I also understand the receivers are unique and matched. But very very high quality matched sets are available on the market, Mega machine jumps to mind. Other sets are also available that offer other new innovative features, be it light weight or ambi features. So while these recovers are not available what to me is an equivalent or better is available. Improved take down pins are available on the market.

    The thermal fit barrel is a nice touch, but questions this raises for me are how hard is it to replace a barrel? Can it be done in the field? Can any mil spec barrel be used? Is the accuracy gain on a combat carbine with a chrome lined barrel quantifiable vs just a good barrel in a good receiver? Basically while neat, is it an actual improvement and does it actually make a difference?, we're not talking about a .25 moa bolt gun here.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Out of multiple insane things I read in this thread this one takes the cake, Grant. I have three ARs and all of them are in 2K range; in fact, two MSTN ones have uppers alone approaching that price. However, besides knowing that a master craftsman put them together, I know exactly why they cost what they do cost.

    On a subject, fit, finish and proprietary dimensions of a 200-400 yard range rifle that shoots 5.56 present next to zero interest to me. Competent assembly does, but there is a translational benefit to that; I've not heard much about that here.
    Really? All the stupid chit you read and this is what you grabs your attention?? You might want to re-read the thread again.

    Every quality AR manufacturer/armorer has tricks, trade secrets and dimensional changes to their products that makes their stuff better. Hodge Defense is no different. So if the owner does not want to give the public every single detail, then thats the way it is. Don't believe what is being said to you about the rifle? That is fine. Drive on and buy something that you feel is better.

    Read what I wrote again. Jim is a PROFESSIONAL weaponizer for uncle sugar. That means that he is and was paid for his knowledge on building fighting weapons for the best of the best. That right there should tell you that the guy knows all about "competent assembly."



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  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by comprido View Post
    You are wrong. Disclosing whether you got a product for free or were paid to endorse the product is obviously the ethically correct thing and most people understand that.

    Why does it matter? You know exactly why, but I'll spell it out anyway. If someone receives got a $2k rifle for free, he might be inclined (maybe just on a subconscious level) to say good things about the product. It's pretty flattering to be selected to be given a $2k rifle to use (and eventually review). That might creep into your review. It's not shilling, but it is worth taking into account.

    If someone is a bit more shady, he might consciously say good things about a product because he likes getting free stuff, and people tend not to give you free stuff if they think you are going to bad mouth them.

    Further, since we are calling BS, I'll call BS on you being someone in a position to respond to my question. (Since you yourself write reviews and take photos of gear, maybe this subject hits a little too close to home? You seem strangely upset that I even asked the question.)

    Regardless of how long SMGLEE has been on this board, it's a fair question. Longevity on a board doesn't mean someone is above shilling for a product, or more likely, that someone is immune to the psychology I talked about above.. He should disclose how he got a product that doesn't appear to be commercially available. If his reputation is above reproach, then it won't matter much. (I'll confess that I don't understand SMGLEEs place in the firearms world or why I'm supposed to think that he is above reproach and his opinion can't be questioned. I thought he was the fellow that goes to SHOT Show and takes pictures, and he also takes a bunch of tactical training classes.)

    the totality of the highly credible posters who have made positive comments --- Who here besides SMGLEE has even handled one of these rifles? Some people seem to know Hodge himself and vouch for him, but maybe I missed the other reviews from highly credible posters.

    (And maybe he spent $2k on the rifle. I don't know. That's why I'm asking.)

    I think that question works and or applies to people that are willing to lie for free stuff. I get stuff for free all the time. Sometimes I right a review and sometimes I don't. Generally if I don't that means that I am; A. not excited about it and or B. think it is crap. When the manufacturer asks me what I thought of it, I am honest.

    SMGlee, LAV, Hackathorn, M4Guru, F2S, etc, etc are all the same way. Getting something for free makes ZERO difference. If it sucks, it still sucks and they will tell you why it sucks.

    As for me, I have read a lot of favorable reviews by folks that make their living down range. That right there is a huge endorsement. That is all I had to go on. Then I spoke with Jim for about a half hour. He knows why and what is going on in the AR world (backed up with real world experience). So even though I have not seen one of these rifles in person, I already know that:

    1. He uses the best quality components.
    2. Knows how to PROPERLY build and tune an AR.
    3. Is going to be pushing the envelope in the AR world in the very near future.

    Not to sound like a rude, AHOLE/know-it-all, but I can tell instantly if someone is an expert in the AR world. Very people have ever impressed me with their knowledge. Jim, Eric K, etc are some of the few examples I have (as of yet) encountered.

    Whether you buy one these AR's is really irrelevant to me (as I don't sell them). I am just telling the truth based off of the facts I have. Do what you will with it.


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  8. #218
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    I really cannot believe this thread. We literally have 75%+ (or more) of the top SMEs posting and some of our HIGHLY regarded posters vouching for this assembler or people backing SMEs. Can we take off the tin-foil hats and just say 'Ill see when I try it?' at this point? We have seen BS post-craze assemblers throwing together just as pricey ARs for this price and they get less shit than this builder. These SME's have not been called out as brand shills and their opinions have never been called into question until now. This is either the BEST conspiracy ever and has millions to spend on bribes or Hodge has genuinely produced a product that really has blown people away.

  9. #219
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    If someone's reputation is strong, disclosing how he received the product shouldn't be a big deal. Disclose it and move on. We (the readers) will take into account the reviewer's reputation when processing the information.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasahara View Post
    I really cannot believe this thread. We literally have 75%+ (or more) of the top SMEs posting and some of our HIGHLY regarded posters vouching for this assembler or people backing SMEs. Can we take off the tin-foil hats and just say 'Ill see when I try it?' at this point? We have seen BS post-craze assemblers throwing together just as pricey ARs for this price and they get less shit than this builder. These SME's have not been called out as brand shills and their opinions have never been called into question until now. This is either the BEST conspiracy ever and has millions to spend on bribes or Hodge has genuinely produced a product that really has blown people away.
    LOL, spot on. The only problem is most (if not all) of the people vouching for Jim CANNOT BE BRIBED. So you you can rule that one out.




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