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Thread: Hodge Defense--Best Carbine money can buy?

  1. #41
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    Hi guys... Jim Hodge here. Been around this industry a long time. Consulted for various manufactures for more than a dozen years, most of which you are familiar with. Decided to give up traveling abroad, and stay home and build a company. The AU MOD 1 is my first offering to the commercial market. I have been building carbines for more than a decade for a small cult following, ie teammates, and associates. I looked at building my MOD 1 as if I could play king for a day, and assemble the nicest rifle someone would be proud to own.

    For most companies in this industry, outsourcing is very prevalent. The difference is the acceptance of manufacturing technique, error, and spec. For example, BCG's, there are a finite number of trusted manufactures. Most major 07s still source from a small number of trusted sources. Another example, say one wants a CHF barrel, there are two main options, FN & DD. With my resources on my initial offering, I can effect change a little at a time. The change I targeted in the MOD 1 was quality, and some geometry integrated in my upper and lower receivers. My level of acceptance with what I can control falls into tolerance, and assembly. Be that as it may, I am not trying to win you over, I am just trying to build the nicest, most reliable carbine regardless of cost.

    To the spec:
    16" CHF, 1/7, CL, pinned mid gas barrel
    158 and sometimes 9310 bolts, all shot peened, and MP tested with M16 carriers
    Geissele SMR handguard
    Tight side of mil-spec upper and lower receivers
    ALG hammer and trigger
    Bar stock reversible selector (not investment cast)
    Bar Stock F/A (not investment cast)
    Enhanced pivot and take down pins
    Impact extruded receiver ext
    Enhanced bolt stop
    H buffer with tuned spring
    Magpul MOE+ grip! and CTR stock with enhanced butt pad
    Gunfighter CH
    SS roll pins, not spring pins

    From a manufacturing process....
    Each rifle is assembled from start to finish by one person. Great pride and care goes into each build, as once a sub assembly is finished, two other sets of eyes are providing QC before the next portion is started. Often times our uppers require a thermal fit before final torque of the barrel nut. Proper staking, as well as alignment of rec-ext we go crazy over. The rifles are then fired and cleaned before packaging.

    As for feedback from professional end users, just ask around. It is not my place to single any individual or team out out of respect.

    No it's not an inexpensive carbine, nor will I apologize or belittle anyone on justification for the value. It's an expensive gun to build pure and simple. Parts, labor, shipping, FET, etc... It all adds up. I appreciate, and get why guys favor one brand over another, hell I have 6 KACs, handful of Jonny's guns, and a crap ton of Colts. I see the merits and faults in all. Not trying to sell you on my brand, cause it is not for everyone, but if your in the market I would appreciate an honest look.

    If you have any questions, please call anytime, and I will do my best to accommodate.

    Cheers,
    Jim Hodge

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMGLee View Post
    Don't get so wrapped up in what components are being used. It should be what the builder does with those parts that is important.

    I think the 1911 analogy is pretty darn close, the receiver forging with its over sized lugs and measurements and tolerance to fit makes this a special carbine, those dimensions and specs are also exclusive to Hodge Defense, those are the behind the scene effort put into building this particular rifle.

    Hammered forged barrel, 1:7 twist with chrome lined and M4 feed ramp... Sure... You can buy those parts for around 1600 dollars, but then again, you can't get the specially dimensioned forged upper and lower and the time he spent to fit those parts together.

    Later this year, Hodge will release some pretty damn cool stuff, with company Alcoa Defense no less....it is what i am holding my breath for.
    So, sounds like a nice rifle but you are paying many hundreds $$$$ extra for a tight fit when the SME's say slop is nothing to worry about and even some say it's desirable. If you weren't a moderator here, you'd be flamed for being a nuthugging shill for Hodge. Here is what C4IGrant says about play:


    "Play between uppers and lowers is actually a good thing. An overly tight AR tends to have more reliability issues."

    C4

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasjim View Post
    Hi guys... Jim Hodge here. Been around this industry a long time. Consulted for various manufactures for more than a dozen years, most of which you are familiar with. Decided to give up traveling abroad, and stay home and build a company. The AU MOD 1 is my first offering to the commercial market. I have been building carbines for more than a decade for a small cult following, ie teammates, and associates. I looked at building my MOD 1 as if I could play king for a day, and assemble the nicest rifle someone would be proud to own.

    For most companies in this industry, outsourcing is very prevalent. The difference is the acceptance of manufacturing technique, error, and spec. For example, BCG's, there are a finite number of trusted manufactures. Most major 07s still source from a small number of trusted sources. Another example, say one wants a CHF barrel, there are two main options, FN & DD. With my resources on my initial offering, I can effect change a little at a time. The change I targeted in the MOD 1 was quality, and some geometry integrated in my upper and lower receivers. My level of acceptance with what I can control falls into tolerance, and assembly. Be that as it may, I am not trying to win you over, I am just trying to build the nicest, most reliable carbine regardless of cost.

    To the spec:
    16" CHF, 1/7, CL, pinned mid gas barrel
    158 and sometimes 9310 bolts, all shot peened, and MP tested with M16 carriers
    Geissele SMR handguard
    Tight side of mil-spec upper and lower receivers
    ALG hammer and trigger
    Bar stock reversible selector (not investment cast)
    Bar Stock F/A (not investment cast)
    Enhanced pivot and take down pins
    Impact extruded receiver ext
    Enhanced bolt stop
    H buffer with tuned spring
    Magpul MOE+ grip! and CTR stock with enhanced butt pad
    Gunfighter CH
    SS roll pins, not spring pins

    From a manufacturing process....
    Each rifle is assembled from start to finish by one person. Great pride and care goes into each build, as once a sub assembly is finished, two other sets of eyes are providing QC before the next portion is started. Often times our uppers require a thermal fit before final torque of the barrel nut. Proper staking, as well as alignment of rec-ext we go crazy over. The rifles are then fired and cleaned before packaging.

    As for feedback from professional end users, just ask around. It is not my place to single any individual or team out out of respect.

    No it's not an inexpensive carbine, nor will I apologize or belittle anyone on justification for the value. It's an expensive gun to build pure and simple. Parts, labor, shipping, FET, etc... It all adds up. I appreciate, and get why guys favor one brand over another, hell I have 6 KACs, handful of Jonny's guns, and a crap ton of Colts. I see the merits and faults in all. Not trying to sell you on my brand, cause it is not for everyone, but if your in the market I would appreciate an honest look.

    If you have any questions, please call anytime, and I will do my best to accommodate.

    Cheers,
    Jim Hodge
    The bold....doesn't seem to fit the price tag.

    What benefit is there to the SS roll pins?

    What does "tuned spring" mean?

    How are the pivot and takedown pins enhanced and what do they bring to the table for the end user?

  4. #44
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    Warp...

    Tuned spring...sprigco blue
    Pivot pins are 30 thou longer, as well a dimpled
    Price a cast GI selector vs bar stock, 10x more expensive
    We mainly use 158, though we had been testing 9310 with success. From our sources the price is the same.
    SS roll pins is a preference.

    Cheers, Jim

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiffhound View Post
    I worked for an Alcoa owned company before I became a mechanic. The conditions were pretty terrible, I got chemical pneumonia around 7 or 8 times because the machines weren't properly sealed and an exhaust system was non-existent. We were told the coolants used were perfectly safe even though the company purchased cortisone cream by the pallet for the horrible rashes that burned and itched like nothing else. A friend was actually scalped by a machine because the doors didn't close properly even though they had been told about the problem numerous times but again "rigged it" and called it good. People were hurt all the time because the machines were rigged to "just run a little longer". Nothing terrified you more than when a spindle failed and the part started beating the doors open. 100 to 200 lb parts spinning at 10,000 RPMs flying through the air is enough to make you lose bladder control.

    It was by far the most dangerous job I ever worked. I worked what they called "rework" for a short time trying to remove chatter marks, raw forging marks that had been missed by our mach that was off because rigging it to run was more important than the employees life, and many other problems with the aluminum forgings. These weren't small parts, they were for Tractor Trailer, Bus, and Heavy Machinery. If this stuff failed it had the potential to kill more than just the person using it. They batch tested everything, not a good idea for something used on highways and roads. I ran most every machine there and was certified for fork-lifts, front loaders, industrial sweepers, and even made it to supervisory position. I ended up having to quit, my Doc had warned me the next chemical pneumonia could be my last.

    So no, Alcoa is not "pretty cool" in my experience. This was years ago. In my experience though big companies don't change, they just find a way around the rules. I stay away from anything they make or own if possible, including Reynolds Aluminum foil.
    Well...I feel like an ass now. My statement was coming from an apparent misguided notion that an AR manufacturer working with the biggest name in Aluminum, Alcoa, would be beneficial to the AR industry. I had no idea their working conditions were that poor (though I am not surprised; almost all huge companies will do the minimum to get by to save on manufacturing/safety costs), and I am sincerely sorry you experienced it first hand.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSparks909 View Post
    Well...I feel like an ass now. My statement was coming from an apparent misguided notion that an AR manufacturer working with the biggest name in Aluminum, Alcoa, would be beneficial to the AR industry. I had no idea their working conditions were that poor (though I am not surprised; almost all huge companies will do the minimum to get by to save on manufacturing/safety costs), and I am sincerely sorry you experienced it first hand.
    Sorry to read this as well.

  7. #47
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    I'll pass and stick with my Colt, Noveske, and BCM guns. For $2k I would atleast expect a nifty lower with ambi controls and a built in QD socket. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a nice gun. However, it doesn't sound like it brings anything new to the table except for different tolerances for the upper/lower fit. Which begs the question...will this upper and lower even be compatible with mil spec uppers and lowers? Modularity and the ability to swap uppers and lowers between weapons is a big part of why I like AR's. It sounds to me like the "enhanced fit" would complicate that.

    And "Best carbine money can buy" is quite a statement. Especially for the gun in question.

  8. #48
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    After reading through a time or two... I feels lost and confused..

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SE Flyer View Post
    So, sounds like a nice rifle but you are paying many hundreds $$$$ extra for a tight fit when the SME's say slop is nothing to worry about and even some say it's desirable. If you weren't a moderator here, you'd be flamed for being a nuthugging shill for Hodge. Here is what C4IGrant says about play:


    "Play between uppers and lowers is actually a good thing. An overly tight AR tends to have more reliability issues."

    C4
    This is what I meant when I said the 1911 analogy doesn't really work for me. A high end 1911 requires hand fitting and bar stock parts to function reliably and shoot accurately. An AR does not need this stuff to be reliable and accurate. The fact that THIS rifle is custom fitted like a high end 1911 does not mean other ARs without such work and parts would be any less accurate or reliable... Of course, I am more than willing to be proven wrong!

  10. #50
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    Our barrels are not hammer forged, but we have had nothing but positive feedback from our customers. The accuracy we have seen as well as that from our customers beats the MILSPEC by a wide margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by VIP3R 237 View Post
    Honestly when I look at the $2K price point I judge everything against the SR15. Besides the Grip and Charging Handle I do not see what the Hodge offers to me that is better than the KAC, admittedly I do prefer the Geissele Hand Guards over the KAC, but quality is equal IMO. Of course being built correctly is a huge thing, but I have confidence in KAC in that aspect as well. So at this point I would chose the SR15 every time. Maybe once their new project is released we shall all be enlightened.

    http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/stor...id_product=107
    Honestly I would have a hard time choosing the Hodge over the Sionics Patrol MK2. Spec wise they are pretty similar, and both will be built right, but the Sionics comes in at a much friendlier price point.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

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