Shotgun for HD: Heresy?

[ptmccain]

Thanks for taking the time to offer a very helpful and thoughtful reply.

I have taken now twice a tactical shotgun class and have really learned a lot about how to use it as a fighting tool, as opposed to shooting clay.



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[Failure2Stop]

What's your time on both to achieve 100% hits inside a 3" circle, with nothing outside (0% escapement), in the dark, at 5 yards?
What's the same with a moving target?

At the end of the day, what you use is far less important than how well you employ it. I'll beat a motherf**ker to death with my bare hands if I have to, but that wouldn't be my first choice.

[ptmccain]

Holding it at the ready? Darn fast at five yards. I will time myself next time to be more precise.

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[VIP3R 237]

I'm pretty sure many bad guys have been taken down by a 5.56 at close range, so I don't buy that argument. I used to be in the Shotgun is the Best for HD camp, but after actually trying to clear and maneuver in the shoot house at our local range it is my third pick behind Carbine/SBR #1, and a handgun as #2. As many have mentioned, even with a cylinder choke the pattern does not open up enough to account for less accuracy at close range, and I am more accurate and faster at putting rounds on target with my carbine or handgun. Also try holding a cell phone and racking a shotgun, it just doesn't work.

[bzdog]

#1 buck using the Flite Control wad probably produces a much more effective wound profile than a .556.

That said, a shotgun is probably going to be heavier, have more recoil, take more time to get follow up shots and carry less ammunition.

Everything is a trade off. Personally, my go-to long gun is a 300 BLK AR w/Barnes black tips, but in most cases the 870 with Flite Control would be fine.

In general, I feel like the AR gives you more capability if the number of assailants is larger.

The thing is tho, most threats are likely to be met with a handgun. If I have the perceived need for a long-gun, I suspect I'd want all the gun I can get.

-john

[plouffedaddy]

Really depends on the shooter at the end of the day. Both will get the job done very well with proper ammo selection.

When I was single I had an 870 with 8 rounds of #4 buck at the ready but now that I'm married we have an AR with 75gr TAP as the primary HD long gun as a shotgun just isn't something my 120lb wife can effectively employ (at least not as well as an AR). I don't feel I've given up anything in terms of lethality FWIW.

[TehLlama]

What's your time on both to achieve 100% hits inside a 3" circle, with nothing outside (0% escapement), in the dark, at 5 yards?
What's the same with a moving target?

At the end of the day, what you use is far less important than how well you employ it. I'll beat a motherf**ker to death with my bare hands if I have to, but that wouldn't be my first choice.

This is exactly it - I've seen too many instances of people (even here) advising somebody who goes duck hunting and can run a 12ga like none other that 'an AR is better', which for that guy it's not. I suck at running shotguns, therefore I supplement pistols with short ARs.
There are a LOT of form factor effects that can really adjust usability, and that's a bit part of how I weight ability to run a weapon system; even with my pistol gripped youth stock on my 870 the limitation on running it in tight quarters is mostly me (but the 38"+ OAL doesn't help a ton).

A center of mass hit with a 12ga on anything without armor is better, but in the time I can personally make a hit with a 12ga platform I'm done with a pair and onto a failure drill with the AR platform I have far more familiarity with.

[A62Rambler]

Ask all the questions of yourself not just the ones about ammo. Which is easier to use at night with a light? Which is easier to use while trying to dial 911 and talk to the dispatcher? Which do I shoot the most and train with the most? Which do I have the most training on? Which to I shoot the best? Which can my family use if I'm not home? Which has easier sights to use? Which is 100% reliable? Which is legal for my area? Which is the best choice for me and my unique circumstances? etc... It varies from person to person so I don't think there's a definitive answer for everyone. I own both. I keep a handgun close and a shotgun and AR hidden away but nearby. If I have to leave my house because of a natural disaster or railroad spill, the shotgun will be locked in the safe. My neighbor doesn't even own an AR but he's proficient with his shotgun. I think we both made the right choice for each of us.

[Failure2Stop]

Holding it at the ready? Darn fast at five yards. I will time myself next time to be more precise.

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I think you're missing the point.
100% accountability.
What is faster, what gets you where you need to be easiest?
I really couldn't care less what you use.

[DWood]

Either one works well when you have prepared yourself and your guns to accomplish the task at hand. Most shotguns I see on the forums have too much crap on them IMO (but I guess many ARs do as well). I have my 870P system down to 4 round side saddle and Inforce WML on the forend at 9:00. I replaced the furniture with Magpul SGA stock and MOE forend and use a factory 2 round extension. I can attach a QD VCAS if desired (Magpul forward sling mount and SGA QD sling mount for stock) and configure it as single or two point.

I prefer to be proficient with either system and able to deploy both of them effectively. I don't think it has to be one over the other. If you like the shotgun though, I think you have to work a little harder initially to become proficient. I am looking forward to a Randy Cain Shotgun 1 class this coming December along with 6 friends.

My shotgun is currently the gun next to the bed. When my Mossy 590A1 14" SBS gets out of jail, it will take over for the 870P.