.38 spl PDX1 gel test: snubby, 4", and carbine

**AndrewWiggin** · 09-22-14, 12:57

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8q9TnxOuu0

130 gr PDX1 fired from S&W 2" Model 638, S&W 4" Model 13, and Rossi 16" Model 92 through four layers of denim into water and calibrated 10% gelatin.

This test bears a little explanation. A while back I tested Speer Gold Dot 125 gr and 135 gr and got no expansion (links below). It was about 40° that day so I thought to my self, "Self, this might be due to the cooler weather causing the ammunition to be cold, resulting in lower velocity." So I retested the loads at both cold temperature and warmer temperature and confirmed that the cold temperature did indeed cause lower velocity, which in turn prevented expansion. Before testing this load I noticed that Tnoutdoors9 got no expansion in his test of the same ammunition. I thought it prudent to begin by testing cold ammunition against water. Cold ammo to represent a worst case for velocity and water to represent a best case for the bullet's ability to expand at the given velocity. So I left the revolver and ammo in the freezer over night and transported them in the cooler with the gelatin. Sorry for the long winded explanation but would you rather I type this out or yammer on for 40 minutes about philosophy of use?

http://youtu.be/M4ukjPssIYQ
http://youtu.be/G6dgkbBxW94

BB: 579.0 fps, 3.6"

Cold ammo in water
S&W638
Impact velocity: 789.8 fps
Penetration: ~27" (water)
Retained weight: 129.5 gr
No expansion

S&W 638
Impact velocity: 867.1 fps
Penetration: 20.0"
Retained weight: 129.2 gr
No expansion

S&W 4" Model 13
Impact velocity: 940.5 fps
Penetration: 13.3"
Retained weight: 128.9 gr
Max expansion: 0.545"
Min expansion: 0.423"

Rossi 16" M92
Impact velocity: 1,197 fps
Penetration: 17.4"
Retained weight: 128.5 gr
Max expansion: 0.576"
Min expansion: 0.489"

**El Cid** · 09-22-14, 21:29

That's interesting about no expansion on the 135 GD in cold weather. It's the NYPD load if I'm not mistaken. I use it too but I'm in Florida.

**AndrewWiggin** · 09-22-14, 22:25

A 4" revolver would probably develop enough velocity to cause expansion even in cold weather and a snubby carried close to the body would stay warm enough. This pretty much only applies to short barrel guns carried in an outside jacket pocket or a purse or left in a glove box in cold weather. A narrow set of circumstances to bee sure, but not unheard of.

**El Cid** · 09-22-14, 22:38

Originally Posted by AndrewWiggin

A 4" revolver would probably develop enough velocity to cause expansion even in cold weather and a snubby carried close to the body would stay warm enough. This pretty much only applies to short barrel guns carried in an outside jacket pocket or a purse or left in a glove box in cold weather. A narrow set of circumstances to bee sure, but not unheard of.

That's outside my lane to speculate but Speer developed the 135 specifically for snubs. I'm curious to see if this gets any attention. Did you contact Speer to share your results? I truly hope it was a bad batch.

**AndrewWiggin** · 09-22-14, 22:42

I have not. It didn't even occur to me to be honest. I suppose I could.

**ack495** · 09-22-14, 23:05

Definitely not what I was hoping to see in terms of expansion. I use both of these rounds in my LCR. Where I live its cold 7 months a year. Makes me want to go back to full wadcutters and have the bonded JHP in speed strips.

Ever test the Barnes 110gr dpx? I bet this would do well, cold or warm. Wish they weren't so damn expensive. No local stores around me have them in stock either.

**AndrewWiggin** · 09-22-14, 23:21

I have not but I plan to do a lot more .38 testing.

**T2C** · 09-22-14, 23:56

I tested Gold Dot 135g +P with my S&W 337, which has a 1-7/8" barrel.

Test data:

July 10, 2009.
Temperature - 70 degrees
Humidity - 94 %
Visibility - cloudy with intermittent drizzle and low light
Chronograph - Competition Electronics
Pistol - S&W 337 with 1 7/8" barrel
Speer Gold Dot +P 135g (#53921)
Lot # C01Q34

Chronograph was placed 10 feet from muzzle per manufacturer protocol.

High Velocity - 862 fps
Low Velocity - 809 fps
Average Velocity - 832 fps
Extreme Spread - 53 fps
Standard Deviation - 22 fps

Rounds fired into ballistic gelatin expanded and penetration was 12"-14".

I'll have to do more testing when the outside temperature remains below 30 degrees. I normally lock ammunition and firearms inside my vehicle and leave it parked outside for 24 hours before testing during the colder months. I can conduct testing at the house, so I don't have to worry about weapons and ammunition warming up while driving to the range.

Your posts are interesting. Please keep the data coming, it is useful.