Plates for class

[Jakedasnake]

Like he stated, "The tradeoff is, if the AR500 stops the 1st round, there's really no worries about the following rounds. Where the Ceramic is highly degraded after the 1st round.". It did a great job. But in a SHTF situation, I want the plate that's going to take a licking, and keep on ticking. Because I know, there aren't many who'll have that M193 ammo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jakedasnake]

Like he stated, "The tradeoff is, if the AR500 stops the 1st round, there's really no worries about the following rounds. Where the Ceramic is highly degraded after the 1st round.". It did a great job. But in a SHTF situation, I want the plate that's going to take a licking, and keep on ticking. Because I know, there aren't many who'll have that M193 ammo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://youtu.be/fOxX8SmfQ0c


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jakedasnake]

"It"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Adam_s]

Ceramic expires, AR500 doesn't. You can't drop ceramic on its side, AR500 you can throw it from a 20 story building. After multiple hits, ceramic is done, AR500 keeps going. If 2-4 oz more is an issue, get a gym membership, or a 20-60lb weighted vest and start working out. Because most likely, you're out of shape. Just saying.


Fear nothing, Nor anyone!

There is so much wrong with this post, it's hard to decide where to begin tearing it apart.

1) Armor "expiration dates" are due to the fact that a manufacturer cannot control the conditions where a plate is kept. This date isn't when the plate will go bad, but when the manufacturer will no longer be able to state with 90+% certainty that it will perform up to its rated specification. Even your highly vaunted steel plate has these dates listed. The "expiration date" is not when the plate "goes bad," but instead when the manufacturer will no longer be responsible for defects in the system. This is not a gallon of milk, nor a carton of eggs we are talking about. Even a diamond at some point will decompose into non-cubic arranged carbon atoms.

2) A ceramic plate is not nearly as fragile as your hyperbole makes it out to be. These armor systems were designed for soldier, and their needs-so that means going hands on, going prone, etc was incorporated into their design requirements. Treat your armor like you'd treat your own body, generally speaking, and life will be good. I'm fairly sure that if you were hucked off of a 20 story building, you'd need to be at least X-Rayed.

3) Multiple hits? Really? Call up Armored Mobility Inc, and get them to share with you the testing results from their TAC3S plate. In testing, a TAC3S withstood 100+rnds of m855, with no penetration. Or ask VelSys about how many rounds their plates have stopped in sequential testing. (spoilers: it's a lot) How many rounds are you really worried about stopping here? If you have a plate that catches a round-give thanks to God, and then retire the old plate and replace it.

4) Armor sucks to wear. Even if you ARE in shape, it still sucks to wear. If you can mitigate some of that suck by going with a lighter material, I'm all for it.

5) Spall/Splash-That plate you are wearing is either curved IN towards you, or at worst, a flat plate. Have you seen any testing that shows where the spall and splash winds up? I haven't. I'm not super eager to be a test-dummy to find out either. And those fancy wondercoatings you see? Pretty much pickup truck bedliner. Not bad stuff, don't misunderstand me, but I've not seen enough conclusive testing to convince me of it's merits.

[Jakedasnake]

There is so much wrong with this post, it's hard to decide where to begin tearing it apart.

1) Armor "expiration dates" are due to the fact that a manufacturer cannot control the conditions where a plate is kept. This date isn't when the plate will go bad, but when the manufacturer will no longer be able to state with 90+% certainty that it will perform up to its rated specification. Even your highly vaunted steel plate has these dates listed. The "expiration date" is not when the plate "goes bad," but instead when the manufacturer will no longer be responsible for defects in the system. This is not a gallon of milk, nor a carton of eggs we are talking about. Even a diamond at some point will decompose into non-cubic arranged carbon atoms.

2) A ceramic plate is not nearly as fragile as your hyperbole makes it out to be. These armor systems were designed for soldier, and their needs-so that means going hands on, going prone, etc was incorporated into their design requirements. Treat your armor like you'd treat your own body, generally speaking, and life will be good. I'm fairly sure that if you were hucked off of a 20 story building, you'd need to be at least X-Rayed.

3) Multiple hits? Really? Call up Armored Mobility Inc, and get them to share with you the testing results from their TAC3S plate. In testing, a TAC3S withstood 100+rnds of m855, with no penetration. Or ask VelSys about how many rounds their plates have stopped in sequential testing. (spoilers: it's a lot) How many rounds are you really worried about stopping here? If you have a plate that catches a round-give thanks to God, and then retire the old plate and replace it.

4) Armor sucks to wear. Even if you ARE in shape, it still sucks to wear. If you can mitigate some of that suck by going with a lighter material, I'm all for it.

5) Spall/Splash-That plate you are wearing is either curved IN towards you, or at worst, a flat plate. Have you seen any testing that shows where the spall and splash winds up? I haven't. I'm not super eager to be a test-dummy to find out either. And those fancy wondercoatings you see? Pretty much pickup truck bedliner. Not bad stuff, don't misunderstand me, but I've not seen enough conclusive testing to convince me of it's merits.

Go to my last post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kaltesherz]

There is so much wrong with this post, it's hard to decide where to begin tearing it apart.

1) Armor "expiration dates" are due to the fact that a manufacturer cannot control the conditions where a plate is kept. This date isn't when the plate will go bad, but when the manufacturer will no longer be able to state with 90+% certainty that it will perform up to its rated specification. Even your highly vaunted steel plate has these dates listed. The "expiration date" is not when the plate "goes bad," but instead when the manufacturer will no longer be responsible for defects in the system. This is not a gallon of milk, nor a carton of eggs we are talking about. Even a diamond at some point will decompose into non-cubic arranged carbon atoms.

2) A ceramic plate is not nearly as fragile as your hyperbole makes it out to be. These armor systems were designed for soldier, and their needs-so that means going hands on, going prone, etc was incorporated into their design requirements. Treat your armor like you'd treat your own body, generally speaking, and life will be good. I'm fairly sure that if you were hucked off of a 20 story building, you'd need to be at least X-Rayed.

3) Multiple hits? Really? Call up Armored Mobility Inc, and get them to share with you the testing results from their TAC3S plate. In testing, a TAC3S withstood 100+rnds of m855, with no penetration. Or ask VelSys about how many rounds their plates have stopped in sequential testing. (spoilers: it's a lot) How many rounds are you really worried about stopping here? If you have a plate that catches a round-give thanks to God, and then retire the old plate and replace it.

4) Armor sucks to wear. Even if you ARE in shape, it still sucks to wear. If you can mitigate some of that suck by going with a lighter material, I'm all for it.

5) Spall/Splash-That plate you are wearing is either curved IN towards you, or at worst, a flat plate. Have you seen any testing that shows where the spall and splash winds up? I haven't. I'm not super eager to be a test-dummy to find out either. And those fancy wondercoatings you see? Pretty much pickup truck bedliner. Not bad stuff, don't misunderstand me, but I've not seen enough conclusive testing to convince me of it's merits.

There's zero point arguing with him- seriously. Refer to the rest of this thread. He obviously knows more than those of us that wear armor for a living...

[Adam_s]

If you are using this armor in a regulated shoothouse/CQB training environment, you will have a better knowledge of what threats you may be facing. Most such facilities will prohibit the use of M855 ammo, as well as other penetrator rounds.

In light of this, if this is purely for training purposes-I'd advise you to look into some of the newer polymer plate systems. These will stop common 5.56mm training rounds (55gr, etc), and be quite light and thin. They also will not have the requirements for X-Ray exam, nor the concerns with going hands on with them.

Finally-before you get sold on 10x12 sizing, I would fully advise you to make sure that plate fits YOUR body type, as well as your intended carrier. SAPI sizing is far more supported in the market at large.

[Grizzly16]

Also, it is worth noting these weights.
Steel with heavy spall coating ~ 9.5lb
Dirt cheap level IV ceramic ~ 8.6 lb
Ultra light level IV ceramic ~ 5.5 lb

The whole "2-4 oz" thing is a gross over simplification of steel vs. ceramic. Nearly 9 lb of difference equates to a lot more ammo, water, food or speed depending on your needs.

And unless the multiple hit deal is for re-usability in an extended SHTF you might be over thinking it it. After catching 4 or 5 rounds in a plate the chances are good you are out of the fight for awhile from the blunt trauma alone.

All that said my first plates are going to be steel because I'm not concerned about xm193 and close range from a longer barrel and prefer the "don't worry about how you treat them" side. As time and budget allows the steel plates are destined for a backup/loaner/abusive training set while I save up some very nice light ceramics.

[markm]

The multiple shot obsession is nonsense. If you're taking more than a few torso/plate hits in your entire lifetime, then you've got bigger problems than armor selection.

And if you do manage to take a few plate strikes somehow, you replace the plate.

[A62Rambler]

Level 3 plates are rated for 6 hits. If you face a likelihood of more than 6 hits in a class... find a different class! The people who wear armor or have worn armor tend to like multicurve ceramic plates. That's a clue! One suggested that if training is your only requirement you can even go with polymer plates. Note that they too are lightweight. That's another clue! I strongly suggest you consider the background of those who have responded. Grizzly16, Kaltesherz, Adam, and markm have been around M4C a long time and I respect their advice. I've found over the years that markm is certainly worth taking advice from. You make your own choice and good luck with the class and armor.