50 yard accuracy frustration

[Zane1844]

My accuracy while standing at 50 yards needs improvement. I am using an AR with a red dot and irons.

Today, I just did single shots on the timer to see how long it takes me to go from high ready, get on target, then fire. I averaged around 2.50-.60 seconds. If I went any faster- though I could sometimes drop to around 2.40- My shots would get weird, with no consistency.

Lastly I fired around 10 rounds, maybe more, going my steady pace: around 2.50 to get on target, and around a second for each follow up shot. Surprisingly (for me) I only missed twice- I am shooting at a 5inch round target.

I am far off from hitting a 3x5 card at 50.

So will slow and steady win this race? Start slow, build up from there and move for higher accuracy then slightly higher speed?

Addition: My recoil management is pretty good, I do not have problems with that. What I have trouble with is chasing the dot on target, especially when going from ready, the follow up shots seem easier- though I do get sloppy with them, too.

[Voodoo_Man]

Dry fire.

Do a lot of it, with the movements and drills that you want to develop.

Test progress on range with live ammo accordingly.

[ptmccain]

My advice is to get yourself some LEO type human torso targets and see where the rounds are going to determine how effective your accuracy is, put a group of six shots on that target as quickly as you can while maintaining reasonable accuracy then ask yourself, "How hard have I made this for the emergency room or cororner to deal with?"

Punching holes as close to one another as possible is a fine exercise, but not necessarily very realistic.

[joe138]

Practice mounting the carbine for a consistent cheek weld, and natural point of aim.

[Arctic1]

My advice is to get yourself some LEO type human torso targets and see where the rounds are going to determine how effective your accuracy is, put a group of six shots on that target as quickly as you can while maintaining reasonable accuracy then ask yourself, "How hard have I made this for the emergency room or cororner to deal with?"

Punching holes as close to one another as possible is a fine exercise, but not necessarily very realistic.

OP, disregard what ptmccain says. His approach is flawed, as he has no experience with marksmanship instruction.

Just a quick question:

1. Are you able to group well standing off-hand at 25 yards? At 30 yards? I prefer an approach where we move back at 5 yard intervals. Don't push 50 yards too quick, if you are inconsistent at the closer ranges.

Now a few tips:

1. Lower the brightness setting on your red dot. This reduces the amount of glare, leaving a dot that appears smaller and allows you to achieve a more consistent dot placement on the target. This will help with group size.
2. The shooting process consists of a few different steps, when broken down. The four first are:

-ID the target
-Mount the weapon
-Stabilize the weapon
-Verify sight picture

The speed at which you can stabilize and verify the sight picture will of course be dependant on target size and distance. This is often where shooters take shortcuts, as they start shooting while mounting the gun in order to "get rounds on target".

I also agree with Voodoo_Man, dry firing at the correct distance or simulated distance can really help with this aspect of your shooting.

[Leaveammoforme]

Something that helps me is simply pointing at the target with my support hand index finger. We have all been pointing at things longer than we can remember, so the muscle memory for our finger to point where our eyes are looking is literally second nature. Just point your finger parallel to the bore while using the rest of your fingers and thumb for your support.

[GTF425]

So will slow and steady win this race? Start slow, build up from there and move for higher accuracy then slightly higher speed?

Addition: My recoil management is pretty good, I do not have problems with that. What I have trouble with is chasing the dot on target, especially when going from ready, the follow up shots seem easier- though I do get sloppy with them, too.

It sounds like you haven't worked on NPOA and your body mechanics enough.

You shouldn't have to fish for the dot when shouldering a carbine. Focus on the target and bring the optic into your line of sight. I agree with joe138: just practice a consistent shoulder-to-stock and cheek weld. I go through this a lot when teaching our new Soldiers how to shoot...they tend to bring their head down and hunch forward when shouldering the rifle. Just keep practicing bringing the optic into your line of sight and get a good feel for your natural point of aim. Work out the body mechanics and build good muscle memory.

I also agree with Arctic1. Don't just push it out to 50 until you're ready. Work on your BRM fundamentals in addition to running through shooting drills. A lot of guys benefit more from good trigger control and a solid base of fundamentals than they would have with a few hundred rounds of shooting drills. Supplement whatever training program you have with more BRM and it'll improve your shooting overall.

If you're having inconsistencies in your shot placement at close range, I personally think you need to work on your trigger control. Sounds to me like when you try to pick up the pace, you slap through the follow up shot. It's not about firing a second (or third/fourth/etc) shot fast, it's about going through the whole process of acquiring your target, aligning your sights, pulling the trigger, and following through as efficiently as possible. The more efficient you are, the faster you can shoot. Don't rush good mechanics, let them build and focus on good quality repetitions.

Side question: have you taken a basic carbine course of any kind? Sometimes the best help is spending a day or two with professionals who can diagnose any shortcomings in your weapon manipulation and teach you how to correct them. We don't know what we don't know and there's nothing basic about that type of training. I highly recommend it, and am personally enrolled in a basic pistol class for December. Sometimes it's good to just go back to the basics and reinforce our foundation.

[GTF425]

My advice is to get yourself some LEO type human torso targets and see where the rounds are going to determine how effective your accuracy is, put a group of six shots on that target as quickly as you can while maintaining reasonable accuracy then ask yourself, "How hard have I made this for the emergency room or cororner to deal with?"

Punching holes as close to one another as possible is a fine exercise, but not necessarily very realistic.

What about shooting partially obscured or moving targets?

This is the exact same logic I hear at public ranges when guys have a giant anatomy target. They aim for the chest, hit the target's pelvis area, and then tell themselves "That ruined his day!".

We hold ourselves accountable with shot placement and time because it gives us a measurable standard. The ability to put shots where you intend for them to go is crucial. It's just basic discipline. If you're compromising at the 50m target, how can you ever expect to fight back at 300? Just because you can physically hit a target doesn't mean your accuracy or competency is at the level that's sufficient enough to win a gunfight.

I have to ask, what are your professional certifications to give training advice or what LEO/MIL experience do you have to tell someone it's not realistic? If the answer is "none", it would be best to avoid giving advice that could lead to someone getting themselves killed.

[Arctic1]

I have to ask, what are your professional certifications to give training advice or what LEO/MIL experience do you have to tell someone it's not realistic? If the answer is "none", it would be best to avoid giving advice that could lead to someone getting themselves killed.

He won't answer this, beacuse he has none.

I am an 11 year military veteran, spent mostly in infantry and recce units including combat deployments, and he calls me a couch commando and internet ninja.

[GTF425]

I've seen your posts both here and on Lightfighter. You're anything but, and a lot of us know that. Your input on the HK416 and its service with your military are insightful and appreciated.