50 yard accuracy frustration

[C4IGrant]

My advice is to get yourself some LEO type human torso targets and see where the rounds are going to determine how effective your accuracy is, put a group of six shots on that target as quickly as you can while maintaining reasonable accuracy then ask yourself, "How hard have I made this for the emergency room or cororner to deal with?"

Punching holes as close to one another as possible is a fine exercise, but not necessarily very realistic.

This is poor advice at best. You must first establish the fundamentals. This means no time limit, solely working on group size from at least 4 different positions. Then, when you are shooting the best group size YOU can, start adding time standards.

Through slow repetition, you will naturally increase your speed.


Everyones shots open up during any kind of stress (naturally) so if you cannot shoot little groups with no stress, you will never do it when needed.

One of my favorite quotes from an ex-Tier1 guy seems fitting for this discussion: "No one will ever have to tell you to shoot faster in a gun fight."


C4

[Flankenstein]

My advice is to get yourself some LEO type human torso targets and see where the rounds are going to determine how effective your accuracy is, put a group of six shots on that target as quickly as you can while maintaining reasonable accuracy then ask yourself, "How hard have I made this for the emergency room or cororner to deal with?"

Punching holes as close to one another as possible is a fine exercise, but not necessarily very realistic.

LOL. Mouth breather.

[Zane1844]

Thanks everyone.

And I have a 2MOA dot.

[kevN]

I think establishing a baseline for your weapon, ammo, and best possible shooter accuracy by shooting from your most stable prone position (perhaps even with bipod and rear bag) is a good idea as well. This will give you confidence that you're the weakest point in the accuracy triangle (ammo, weapon, shooter). Shooting some match ammo against your standard would also be good information when we're talking about 50 yards you may seem a non-insignificant difference between milsurp and match ammo. Not justifying shooting match ammo all the time, but being able to isolate specific factors so you KNOW you are the weak link and not a wobbly mount or bad ammo consistency is important in my opinion.

[Slab]

My accuracy while standing at 50 yards needs improvement. I am using an AR with a red dot and irons.

So will slow and steady win this race? Start slow, build up from there and move for higher accuracy then slightly higher speed?

.

Just an opinion/recommended path forward, as others have mentioned:

Training-exchange of “proper” technique AND evaluation/critique by a competent set of eyes-critical. Some instructors are good at dissecting issues, lots are just running you through a “course”…
Dry fire with the emphasis on applying the fundamentals you learned in your BRM, with LOTS of emphasis on trigger control…
Learn to accept some movement in your sights (sometimes referred to as your “wobble zone”) and learn to avoid “ambushing” the target and slapping the trigger when the dot-sights is/are "there”… Might consider some Ball and Dummy drills…

IMHO the answer to your question is accuracy first and then work on increasing your speed…

[ptmccain]

We keep hearing people counsel people like the OP to aim for accurate and fast hits, offhand, on a 3x5 card from 50 yards. I'd really like to see those giving this advice demonstrate their proficiency at doing that.

Any videos we could watch to see this demonstrated? I've seen several of my former US NAVY SEAL instructors do it, using only iron sights mind you. But they had unlimited ammo and shot literally from dawn to dark for weeks on end before deployments to ramp up to this kind of accuracy, shooting, 40,000 rounds of 9mm and 5.56

My premise, without evidence to the contrary posted, is that this sounds great in theory, but few have the time and ammo resources to actually perfect plugging holes in a paper 3x5 card at 50 yards consistently, from an offhand position.

Any takers? I would love to be proven wrong here.

[SpeedRacer]

We keep hearing people counsel people like the OP to aim for accurate and fast hits, offhand, on a 3x5 card from 50 yards. I'd really like to see those giving this advice demonstrate their proficiency at doing that.

Any videos we could watch to see this demonstrated?

My premise, without evidence to the contrary posted, is that this sounds great in theory, but few have the time and ammo resources to actually perfect plugging holes in a paper 3x5 card at 50 yards consistently, from an offhand position.

Any takers? I would love to be proven wrong here.

This might sound crazy, but perhaps that advice is being offered because that is precisely the advice the OP asked for.

[Flankenstein]

We keep hearing people counsel people like the OP to aim for accurate and fast hits, offhand, on a 3x5 card from 50 yards. I'd really like to see those giving this advice demonstrate their proficiency at doing that.

Any videos we could watch to see this demonstrated?

My premise, without evidence to the contrary posted, is that this sounds great in theory, but few have the time and ammo resources to actually perfect plugging holes in a paper 3x5 card at 50 yards consistently, from an offhand position.

Any takers? I would love to be proven wrong here.

You've been proven wrong already. You're a phony, give it a rest.

[T2C]

Thanks everyone.

And I have a 2MOA dot.

At whatever range you are shooting inside 200 yards, I would suggest using a target that is big enough that the red dot won't cover more than 50%. I have a 4 MOA dot and for 50 yard drills, I center the red dot on a SR-1. Take your carbine and ammunition and determine what size groups you can shoot off the bench. This will tell you the accuracy potential for group sizes while shooting from different positions.

If I am shooting at a 3"x5" card at 50 yards, I index the dot at the bottom third of the card, so I don't lose the card behind the dot. Your goal is small groups at lower speed to start with and that is difficult unless there is adequate target to index the sight system.

Try this. Search the internet for a SR-1 pdf file and print some copies on 8-1/2" x 11" sheets of paper. That will give you a good target to start with. If your goal is a small group at slow to moderate speeds on a silhouette or USPSA target, staple the SR-1 on the area you want to hit, i.e., the A zone on the USPSA target or over the number 8 on the chest of the silhouette. After you are sufficiently warmed up, try shooting the same area on the big target without the SR-1 stapled to it. Speed comes with time and repetition. Bear in mind that the faster you shoot, the larger your cone of fire will be on target and you will have to shoot at a speed you can shoot with acceptable accuracy.

If my suggestion does not work, trash it, move on and try something else.

There is no substitute for having a coach watch you shoot and help you make adjustments.

[ptmccain]

This might sound crazy, but perhaps that advice is being offered because that is precisely the advice the OP asked for.

I know he asked for advice, I'm simply asking those telling the OP to punch holes in a 3x5 card at 50 yards quickly and accurately to put up some proof they can do it. My point is that achieving and maintaining such proficiency is probably out of reach for the vast majority of us who are not in a position to spend dawn-to-dusk time at the range and have, literally, unlimited ammo and equipment. I know from personal experience and observation that well skilled former US NAVY SEALs who maintain their skills can do it.

I may be wrong, but ... I'd like to see the proof.