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Thread: Instructors on the record about rifle selection

  1. #51
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    In addition to Troy and BCM, Frank Proctor has a Windham Weaponry (factory formerly known as Bushmaster after Freedom Group acquired) carbine

    https://www.windhamweaponry.com/news...s/06202014.asp
    Last edited by Boss Hogg; 10-08-14 at 12:27.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Many moons ago, some very well known instructors informed me that not all Tier 1 and 2 guys were "gun guys." Meaning, they know nothing about what makes a quality weapon. I initially rejected this notion, but over my many years to talking with this group of guys (some active duty, some retired, etc), it became painfully apparent that this statement was true.

    In Mr. Howe's case, I believe that he wanted a rifle spec'd out a certain way and DPMS was one of the few companies that offered to make it (read setup with the rails, grips, stock, etc) that he liked.


    C4
    Regarding your first, I agree.
    Regarding your second, that's interesting. I'm not meaning that in a snide way, I just find it interesting. Thanks for the backstory.

  3. #53
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    Instructors on the record about rifle selection

    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    No, I just know it from my talks with the owner of BCM.


    C4
    What about Travis Haley and the Jack rifle?


    Edit: oops. Read your really reply again.

    I may ride a little fast and someday it may catch up and bite me in the ass but maybe not if I give it just a little more gas.
    Last edited by alvincullumyork; 10-08-14 at 12:19.
    Die living

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Many moons ago, some very well known instructors informed me that not all Tier 1 and 2 guys were "gun guys." Meaning, they know nothing about what makes a quality weapon. I initially rejected this notion, but over my many years to talking with this group of guys (some active duty, some retired, etc), it became painfully apparent that this statement was true.

    In Mr. Howe's case, I believe that he wanted a rifle spec'd out a certain way and DPMS was one of the few companies that offered to make it (read setup with the rails, grips, stock, etc) that he liked.


    C4
    That's very old. Paul Howe is now associated with Wilson Combat, and they build a much better gun.

    http://wilsoncombat.com/new/rifle-pa...p#.VDV2AvldXG4

  5. #55
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    Kyle Lamb has run a S&W rifle for years now... VTAC has a partnership with Troy to make custom accessories, but they go on the S&W rifle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv8Zklkfa3I
    http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y

    EDIT: Yes, Troy does make a "SGM Lamb" rifle, but I have yet to see Lamb advertise it like he's done with S&W.
    Last edited by justin_247; 10-08-14 at 13:50.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    That's very old. Paul Howe is now associated with Wilson Combat, and they build a much better gun.

    http://wilsoncombat.com/new/rifle-pa...p#.VDV2AvldXG4
    Yes, I know. Was just adding input to that post.


    C4

  7. #57
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    Jason Falla runs KAC.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KMpo7Xyffk

    Steve Fisher was running a Legion Firearms gun for awhile, but now that they've gone out of business, I have no idea...

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    To my knowledge, none of the BCM GunFighters receive a check from BCM (even the instructors with signature rifles). Read no royalties. So we need to make sure it is clear that they endorse BCM without receiving a paycheck. C4
    What about rifles, accessories and other gear? Are those items comped, discounted or retail?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    What about rifles, accessories and other gear? Are those items comped, discounted or retail?
    Sometimes, sometimes, and sometimes.

    Take KD4 as an example. He built and purchased at retail prices, every single part that initially went on his "everyman's hunting rifle." But he also shoots using a lot of USO glass, and given his relationship with them it's safe to assume that he does not pay for them...or at the very least doesn't pay full retail. Note, I don't know for a fact that he doesn't pay full retail here...it's just an example of a situation where an instructor probably does not. It doesn't mean that they are not great optics and that he wouldn't endorse them fully.

    Also, a lot of these folks are like gun writers in the sense that they get something sent to them on indefinite loan for them to wring out. It's not technically been given to them for free with nothing expected in return.

    ETA: I think it's worth noting that at the end of the day the AR is a great platform with a lot of inherent reliability. We're gun guys here and attempt to find perfection, and balk at anything that's not the best it can be. This is a great thing and I embrace that. But the fact is that unless you have genuine retards building the guns...most of them will run lights out in most situations. Even shitty brands...you just have a higher chance of having problems with them than you do with companies that build to a quality spec. Well, other than Olympic anyway(MarkM don't break out your pictures.)

    Also opinions, knowledge, and so forth evolve over time. Wilson Combat came out with a rail that was similar to and preceded the KAC URX 3.1, and people freaked out like it was the dumbest thing ever. In the magazine thread that's stuck here, people used to maintain that the best option were the HK mags and that everything else was a crapshoot. We evolve, our understanding evolves, and this holds true for some of the most experienced and knowledgeable instructors on the planet.
    Last edited by thopkins22; 10-08-14 at 14:45.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    What about rifles, accessories and other gear? Are those items comped, discounted or retail?
    I don't run BCM so I don't know all the specifics of everything. A lot of companies give instructors free kit to give away to the students for prizes and such. How much is anyones guess.



    C4

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